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| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
im not so sure its that easy to separate the religious-political divide. i mean, take al qaida. their avowed goal is to create an islamic state covering most of the middle east (and after that probably the world, god willing). |
Indeed, what they want is to overthrow the existing Arabic regimes and replace them with (Salfist) Islamic theocracies; however, this is a political rather then religious agenda... granted, since they want theocracies there is obviously a religious element to it but the driving ambition is political... if all they wanted was government based on the Islamic tradition then there would be no need for a revolution since this is already present in most Arabic states... the real goal is to overthrow the oppressive regimes presently in power in favor of regimes that would provide a greater distribution of wealth (keep in mind the general rule in the Arib world is those with power are incredibly wealthy while the rest live in abject poverty). I highly recommend you read "The Mess They Made" by Gwynn Dyer (military historian with a PhD in Middle Eastern history).
| quote: | | agreed, but what do you think this other fight is though? |
distribution of wealth
| quote: | | lols. i didnt know the satan term had another meaning. where i come from satan is a relatively unambiguous expression! |
Indeed... the very concept of "satan" comes from Zoroastrianism and it's belief that god (Ahura Mazda) is locked in a constant battle with his antithesis (Angra Mainyu). The hebrew word "satan" comes from a word meaning "rival" or "hostile" in a language (can't remember the name... it's now dead) that was spoken in the southern part of present day Iraq, which was used in reference to Angra Mainyu. Essentially, the Hebrews adopted this concept of a "rival" to God (when they were exiled in southern Iraq) and made the term satan into a proper name "ah-Satan" (the rival); however, this concept was origionally meant to be understood as the spirit of evil (and still is for the most part). The concept did not exist in Judaism prior to this time. The Christians took this one step further (because that's what we do) and embodied this spirit of evil or satan into an actual being "Satan." Islam more or less piggy-backed the Christian belief of "Satan"; however, in both Arabic and Persian the term still carries dual meaning... it also does amongst most scholars of Abrahamic religions. Given that the Ayatollah Khomeini was a scholar of Islam it is presumable that rival was the meaning he intended otherwise he would have used the word Iblis exclusively.
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| quote: | Originally posted by RickyM
you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about. |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down 
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