No plane theory, you must smoke crack? I said prove it was Flight 77 that crashed, show me the matching serial numbers from the parts.

Anyone can see an airplane in the sky, I am betting no one can see the serial numbers on it from the ground though.

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evidence? you have no proof at all that there are any other videos, so stop saying it like you have. why on earth would they have a video pointed at the sky to film incoming planes? juvenile assumptions without any supporting evidence. good work.

Pointing at the sky? Are you serious? The cameras (most likely in the hunhdreds) are recording every square inch of the building just on the exterior alone.

THIS IS THE PENTAGON WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, NOT SOME LOW INCOME WELFARE APARTMENT YOU FUKING RETARD.

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Originally posted by culorut No plane theory, you must smoke crack? I said prove it was Flight 77 that crashed, show me the matching serial numbers from the parts.

right. so the fact that the airline knows it doesn't have that particular plane anymore is meaningless to you? so where did flight 77 REALLY go then?

5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

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Originally posted by culorut Pointing at the sky? Are you serious? The cameras (most likely in the hunhdreds) are recording every square inch of the building just on the exterior alone. THIS IS THE PENTAGON WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, NOT SOME LOW INCOME WELFARE APARTMENT YOU FUKING RETARD.

And again, you havent provided a single piece of evidence to suggest there were cameras that caught anything. Repeatedly saying "it’s the pentagon, LOL" isn't evidence. And in the several years that you no-planers have been parroting this shit, none of you have provided anything even approaching evidence that there were other cameras that caught the plane in shot and are being held onto by the evil government.

So, either stop saying the same old shit or bring some evidence to the table.

Fucking no planer idiot.

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Someone should rename this thread to culorut v.s pkcRAISTLIN

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Someone should rename this thread to culorut v.s pkcRAISTLIN

I tried

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Fucking no planer idiot.

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Originally posted by culorut What matching parts? Prove it. I already posted that none of the planes where ever matched on 9/11. Not likely, but I am more concerned about backing this up with evidence if that is what you say. Again random plane parts on a lawn does not prove jack shit. It is very easy to plant parts considering they closed off the area rather quickly, maybe it was not even Flight 77's parts on lawn.

God damn you are a thick fuck. Can you ever answer a question with an answer rather than another question? I've asked you two times to explain what happened at the Pentagon if Flight 77 didn't hit it and twice now you have failed to offer any other possible explanation. The preponderance of real evidence available shows that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. You believe the evidence to be fabricated and false. The burden of proof is on you, not me, to prove that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon. In order to prove that you have to present real and verifiable evidence that something other that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon. But then providing actual evidence and proof is where you truther halfwits always choke.

Please read the information in this link in its entirety:

Boeing 757 engine part evidence at the Pentagon reviewed by aerospace industry professionals, not some tinfoil hat wearing truther with no qualifications like you always post

Now considering the following:

1. Your "evidence" of a Cheney stand down order and Cheney being "in control" of NORAD (whatever that was supposed to mean) was false and just an out of context quote typical of truther "evidence"

2. At the Pentagon there are burned parts of a 757 engine

3. Multiple eye witnesses saw a large jet aircraft crash into the Pentagon (thanks pkc for already finding the quotes)

4. Flight 77, a large Boeing 757 aircraft and (more importantly) all its crew and passengers are missing and have never been found

Edit: 5. Information from an actual professional with qualifications who was on the scene at the Pentagon: Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

All this information leads me to logically conclude that a Boeing 757 crashed at the Pentagon. Since Flight 77 is a Boeing 757 and is missing and its last known location on radar was headed toward Washington D.C. I logically conclude that the Boeing 757 that struck the Pentagon was in fact Flight 77.

Since you contend that Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon I would like you to answer the following, and I'll try to make the questions simple so even you can understand:

1. What do you believe happened at the Pentagon?

2. Where is Flight 77, its crew, and all its passengers?

Please support your answers with actual, verifiable evidence (yeah right), not more questions.

Last edited by XaNaX on May-13-2008 at 18:40

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Originally posted by XaNaX 2. Where is Flight 77, its crew, and all its passengers?

Oh, I know this one! They're all lost in an island or something, and you can see them on ABC every week!

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quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX So again you cannot just answer a simple question. In typical truther fashion you love to post that Mineta quote about Cheney completely out of context. Here is the quote in context: As you can clearly see when it is posted IN CONTEXT, Cheney was only confirming that the order to shoot DOWN hijacked aircraft still stood. Cheney was not in charge of shit, he wasn't issuing any stand down orders, he was only confirming for this staff person that Bush had authorized the shootdowns. Unfortunately the Air Force was never in a position to be able to shoot down any of the aircraft. So without your precious Mineta misquote to "prove" that Cheney ordered a stand down I ask again, please tell me what you believe happened at the Pentagon:

something hit the western side of the pentagon, an area under renovations, no tactical loss for the government.

Mineta's testimony was censored, by the way.
--------------

NORAD says the F-16s from Langley were still 105 miles and 12 minutes away.

Langley is 130 miles from the Pentagon. F-16's have a top speed of 1500 MPH. Minus 105 miles left from 130 miles = 25 miles covered in the 7 minutes from 9:30 take-off to 9:37. 60 minutes divided by 7 minutes equals 8.57, times this by the 25 miles covered, equals 214.3 MPH. divided by 1500 MPH equals 14.3% of their top speed. How could these two F-15s possibly be going one seventh of their top speed in trying to intercept Flight 77? Even the story about first flying to NYC does not account for this unbelievably slow speed because they got the message to redirect to Washington D.C. within a couple of minutes of take-off, and NYC and Washington D.C. are almost exactly the same direction (north) from Langley.

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Originally posted by {b.s.e.} something hit the western side of the pentagon, an area under renovations, no tactical loss for the government. Mineta's testimony was censored, by the way. -------------- NORAD says the F-16s from Langley were still 105 miles and 12 minutes away. Langley is 130 miles from the Pentagon. F-16's have a top speed of 1500 MPH. Minus 105 miles left from 130 miles = 25 miles covered in the 7 minutes from 9:30 take-off to 9:37. 60 minutes divided by 7 minutes equals 8.57, times this by the 25 miles covered, equals 214.3 MPH. divided by 1500 MPH equals 14.3% of their top speed. How could these two F-15s possibly be going one seventh of their top speed in trying to intercept Flight 77? Even the story about first flying to NYC does not account for this unbelievably slow speed because they got the message to redirect to Washington D.C. within a couple of minutes of take-off, and NYC and Washington D.C. are almost exactly the same direction (north) from Langley.

What are you doing, competing with cretinrot to see who can be the biggest truther jackass in this thread? Did you even bother to read that link I posted before? I didn't think so, but then it was 11 pages so that is probably a lot for you to handle. Let me filter out just the timeline for you so even you can understand:

08:37:52 - NORAD is first contacted about a hijacked aircraft. The air traffic controller who contacted NORAD has no idea where the aircraft is or where it is headed. They cannot find the aircraft among the thousands of planes on their scopes because the hijackers have turned off the transponders. NORAD contacts Otis to ready the F-15s.

08:44:59 - NORAD commander orders the launch of the F-15s from Otis even though Flight 11 cannot be located. He sends them in the general direction of NYC.

08:46:40 - Flight 11 hits the WTC. NORAD and air traffic controllers still have no idea where the plane is.

08:52:40 - F-15s from Otis are just now airborne and are sent to NYC

09:03:17 - Flight 175 hits the WTC, the F-15s have not yet arrived

The F-15s had about 11 minutes to make it from Otis to NYC, a distance they might have been able to make had they flown a beeline to NYC at supersonic speed. However, since this was pre 9/11 operation and they were military aircraft without a target they were vectored into military airspace and held outside of New York air traffic since they had no known target or mission.

The F-16s from Langley were not breifed as to why they were being scrambled so they followed their typical cold-war era patrol pattern out to sea diverting them from DC.

Try at least getting your simple timelines/information straight before you start trying to be some kind of math wiz by calculating how long it would take to fly from an air force base to a target.

quote:

Originally posted by XaNaX What are you doing, competing with cretinrot to see who can be the biggest truther jackass in this thread? Did you even bother to read that link I posted before? I didn't think so, but then it was 11 pages so that is probably a lot for you to handle. Let me filter out just the timeline for you so even you can understand: 08:37:52 - NORAD is first contacted about a hijacked aircraft. The air traffic controller who contacted NORAD has no idea where the aircraft is or where it is headed. They cannot find the aircraft among the thousands of planes on their scopes because the hijackers have turned off the transponders. NORAD contacts Otis to ready the F-15s. 08:44:59 - NORAD commander orders the launch of the F-15s from Otis even though Flight 11 cannot be located. He sends them in the general direction of NYC. 08:46:40 - Flight 11 hits the WTC. NORAD and air traffic controllers still have no idea where the plane is. 08:52:40 - F-15s from Otis are just now airborne and are sent to NYC 09:03:17 - Flight 175 hits the WTC, the F-15s have not yet arrived The F-15s had about 11 minutes to make it from Otis to NYC, a distance they might have been able to make had they flown a beeline to NYC at supersonic speed. However, since this was pre 9/11 operation and they were military aircraft without a target they were vectored into military airspace and held outside of New York air traffic since they had no known target or mission. The F-16s from Langley were not breifed as to why they were being scrambled so they followed their typical cold-war era patrol pattern out to sea diverting them from DC. Try at least getting your simple timelines/information straight before you start trying to be some kind of math wiz by calculating how long it would take to fly from an air force base to a target.

I wasn't talking about the WTC. The focus of the conversation was the Pentagon. Which was struck by Flight 77 at 9:37.

No points for reading comprehension. Nice work with the insults. Wiz.

Timelines, hey?

9:24 AM : The FAA, who 28 minutes earlier had discovered Flight 77 off course and heading east over West Virginia, reportedly notifies NORAD. A Pentagon spokesman says, "The Pentagon was simply not aware that this aircraft was coming our way." [50 miles out.... 30 miles out... 10 miles out...]

9:28 AM: Air traffic control learns that Flight 93 has been hijacked.


9:38 AM: Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon. [42 minutes or more after contact was lost, one hour after NORAD notification of first hijacking.

________

Read it twice this time.


..good luck with the math. Wiz.

quote:

Originally posted by {b.s.e.} Timelines, hey? 9:24 AM : The FAA, who 28 minutes earlier had discovered Flight 77 off course and heading east over West Virginia, reportedly notifies NORAD. A Pentagon spokesman says, "The Pentagon was simply not aware that this aircraft was coming our way." [50 miles out.... 30 miles out... 10 miles out...] 9:28 AM: Air traffic control learns that Flight 93 has been hijacked. 9:38 AM: Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon. [42 minutes or more after contact was lost, one hour after NORAD notification of first hijacking. ________ Read it twice this time. ..good luck with the math. Wiz.

So what's your point dickhead? That NORAD's ability to identify and intercept aircraft entering from overseas really didn't prepare them for hijacked aircraft on 911?

I love how previously you have stated that you don’t really care about 911 and youre not a conspiracy theorist, yet every single post you've made in here is filled with the popular lies of the truth club.

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