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Originally posted by Jem_hadar I just never understood why sex before marriage is so down right taboo and sinfull. it just dont make sense to me. i mean i can see why parents would try to dissuade their kids or young ppl in general, bc of all the risks involved, like unexpected pregnancies, STDs, the emotional aspect attached to it (most the time)... so i can understand why parents often like their kids and other teenagers to put off sex... but the idea that its wrong until ur married? WTF... sex is not wrong like that. sex is sex. if ur gonna have it, be aware of its complications in all regards (emotionally, physically...). The idea that ppl have that sex is sacred i think is crap. i can understnad why ppl regard sex highly and dont necessary want to have it before marriage even if they arent religious, bc yes, its a big deal to many. but i dont see why it has to be or why its such a thing that should be limited to those who are married. but i guess that stems from the idea that sex is for procreation only and therefore you and your mate should be married (ie. in a stable situation) where you can ideally raise very well the offspring of your union. just my thoughts on the matter. i dont see that sex needs to be a big deal -- yet, religious reasoning aside, i do realize why it is such a big dela to many... and i also see why its not a big ordeal to many others as well! sex is sex ppl, if ur gonna do it, have fun, and be fucking safe. be aware of and preapred for potential complications (its part of the package). and if u do have it, dont be embarrassed about it. if your being embarrassed, well maybe you shouldnt be having it then ~Jem~

earlier in this thread i allued to things that i didn't believe in, like how the catholics are against gay marriage, well the sin of pre-marital sex is one of them. like if someone argues that "the bible says so," then i just know that they are a dumbass and need a book to tell them what to believe, but it doesn't tell you anywhere that sex b4 marriage is bad... all these high up italians are dictating what all these ppl should believe... so that's why its better to be agnostic

on a side note: can you just be a christian and not have a denomination?

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Originally posted by DJ_Bananie on a side note: can you just be a christian and not have a denomination?

yes

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Originally posted by Ub3rTrancer yes

But then which church do you go to on Sunday morning? LOL

There aren't many non-denominational Christian churches.

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I am nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore I am perfect.

I havent made up my mind yet as to whats out there.

Im not sure I beleive in a single dude(God) however I may be open to there being a higher power of some sort. Im not sure yet. Havent thought about it much lately.

so Im in limbo

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Trance in my pants

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Originally posted by Euphorica I havent made up my mind yet as to whats out there. Im not sure I beleive in a single dude(God) however I may be open to there being a higher power of some sort. Im not sure yet. Havent thought about it much lately. so Im in limbo

actually, i'm kinda in the same boat, and i consider myslef to be agnostic

sorry i didnt read through whole thread, so im just assuming this never came up, but one question im wondering, how many ppl think that that jesus did (not) exist? its somewhat the same, somewhat different...

and u can add me to athiest

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it was the greatest feeling of nothingness i have ever experienced...

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Originally posted by Resnick sorry i didnt read through whole thread, so im just assuming this never came up, but one question im wondering, how many ppl think that that jesus did (not) exist? its somewhat the same, somewhat different... and u can add me to athiest

a group of historians have found proof that someone who resembles Jesus lives in that area in that time period, and that he was a leader of a large group of people. there is no doubt in my mind that Jesus (the person) existed, and that his ideals were what helped shape the laws we live by today.

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Originally posted by DJ_Bananie a group of historians have found proof that someone who resembles Jesus lives in that area in that time period, and that he was a leader of a large group of people. there is no doubt in my mind that Jesus (the person) existed, and that his ideals were what helped shape the laws we live by today.

If you go back a few pages, you'll see that we were talking about Jesus as perhaps a well-liked, charismatic, kind person. I'm not gonna claim that he didn't exist; however, I have my doubts about him performing miracles and coming back from the dead and such. Perhaps he was a nice guy, but the son of god? That, I doubt.

Also, consider somebody like David Blaine (a very famous street magician). If a guy like him was around in Jesus' time, he probably could convince a lot of people that he had magic powers. There would likely be a lot of other people who believed he had evil sorcery and would want him killed (think of the "witch" killings, etc). Jesus is my mind could likely have been a very charismatic, strong-minded David Blaine.

Another interesting comment that I think was brought up in a conversationg with, of all people, my girlfriend's mom:

If Jesus was alive now, what would he think of the way things are today? Do you think Jesus would go around telling homosexuals that they're sinners, and unmarried people they are sinners, and people using birth control that they're sinners? It's too bad that the context of all of Jesus' teachings are about 2000 years old! Cultures change, values change, and religion does a really lousy job of adapting to those changes. Most of our society tends to accept things like birth control, homosexuality, and unmarried couples. It's just the way we have become. Just because Jesus said it was wrong 2000 years ago, do we deserve to have this constant religious force in our lives pushing us to be more socially conservative?

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I am nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore I am perfect.

Oh yes, and Annie... congratulations on making it to junior tranceaddict! Make a better avatar!

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I am nobody. Nobody is perfect. Therefore I am perfect.

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot Another interesting comment that I think was brought up in a conversationg with, of all people, my girlfriend's mom: If Jesus was alive now, what would he think of the way things are today? Do you think Jesus would go around telling homosexuals that they're sinners, and unmarried people they are sinners, and people using birth control that they're sinners? It's too bad that the context of all of Jesus' teachings are about 2000 years old! Cultures change, values change, and religion does a really lousy job of adapting to those changes. Most of our society tends to accept things like birth control, homosexuality, and unmarried couples. It's just the way we have become. Just because Jesus said it was wrong 2000 years ago, do we deserve to have this constant religious force in our lives pushing us to be more socially conservative?

Interesting point for those who do believe in and follow the teachings of god and jesus. what say you, any that are still reading the posts in this thread?

-jem-

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TECHNO IS THE BEST NOISE ON EARTH.
Save Techno - Stop Minimal / Tech-House

unfortunately this thread got so ridiculously out of control, with DJ_Elyot making all sort of claims and statments
(which flaws could be pointed out so easily), that i don't think anyone cares to reply anymore (including myself), everything and anything has been touched on the surface without making any constructive conclusions or yeilding any results.
also due to respect to jem_hader's initial idea of starting a roll call for athiests, i think the thread should stick to what it was meant for (i myself, am to blame for hijacking the thread and leading it to other subjects of discussion, which i apologize for).
if there's real and serious interest in the subjects discussed in this thread and if we're all focused on constructive discussions and debates, i would suggest taking one topic at a time and dealing with it until we get to some sort of conclusion, dealing with it in a seperate thread.
why not start with atheism and discuss that first, as it's the starting point, which most of the other topics discussed here (religion,homosexuality,moral values, modern science,etc) relate to.
if you agree, i'm defintely in for some idea sharing and serious discussions.
on a side note,no offense, but some people that regard themseleves as athiests/agnostics here, quite frankly don't even know much about atheism/agnostism , hence making contradictionary statments(fate, higher being,etc), much of it being due to the not-so-correct defenition that jem_hader made of atheist/agnostic. the definitions have apparently become more complicated nowadays (as my reserach showed) , that's why there's a lot of confusion here.
anyways that's my opinion, since i've spent 7-8 years of my life dealing/struggling with these issues, i don't take them lightly, maybe i'm wrong to think that everyone else should be serious about them too.

Times, they are a-changing

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Originally posted by Sushipunk Shit yeah, that's what I've been saying for years.