yeah but u dont have to be a producer to be a mad dj.

*most* not the good ones.

i really dont wanna name names, but down here in oz we have had a few of the newbreed trance producers...most of em havent captured the crowd, and trance is still going through its infancy (again here)because people go out to hear this mad new trance jocks..and most of the time they are pretty boring and it sounds a little self indulgent - people dont dance and go home.

yeah there are the good ones and they get booked for the big events, but the mid range club events that get the mid range djs are quite sucky in a lot of cases imho.

having said that we just had ronski and he was awesome, same as gtr and adam white....

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Originally posted by Light The Fuse ive seen a few of these kind of asot branded trance dj's play..im not gunna name names, but this is exactly what dissapoints me everytime i see em live -- wow i can play this awesome unheard of, totally key mixed, seamless trance that sounds like just about everyone else. Then there is no skill in this, but real djing, the kind you have to learn if you havent produced tracks first and just want to be known as a wikkid dj before (if ever) you produce..then that takes skill.

i guess that all boils down to what u look for in a dj then.

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nah fair enough - but yer..it does take skill..i spose yeah a good dj

it doesnt take much skill to be a producer either...a good one..different again

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Originally posted by Light The Fuse yeah but u dont have to be a producer to be a mad dj.

oh i totally agree with you there i didnt mean that at all. but i think that any good dj who doesnt produce gets a fair amount of exposure. people either wana see djs who are able to offer something that others are not able to offer, or they want to see the people who actually make the music. they dont wana see some random idiot just playing one track after another.

im just saying that its totally unfair to assume that producers cant dj.

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle anyone who thinks dj-ing takes skill is a total retard. usually its the producers who are most experimental and unique when it comes to djing, becasue they know about effects, structures, and loads of other technical shit that ur average dj does not. if u go listen to like mikey mike or Az's mixes in the ameteur dj forum they are shit. just one track then the next waiting till the very last minute to bring the next track in. I have been producing longer than i have been djing, i have only been djing for 2 or 3 years. but i make a point of being different when it comes to djing. using loops, acapellas, fx, mixing tracks in keys which complement each other ( i take the time to update my database with the key of each track i have at a certain tempo... im sure many djs do this, but alot do not. at the end of the day mate, if you think that there is more to djing than producing then you have no idea. producers get booked because clubbers these days like to see the guys who actually make the music, not just some idiot who gets paid to play other peoples. sure there are probably producers who learn to dj in a week and then get booked but who do u see complaining (apart from you?) people go see them because they like the music they MAKE. it pisses me off so much when "real djs" bitch and moan about "producer djs" just because they tend to get more gigs and better gigs than those "real djs"... let me tell u something mate... the djs who dont do anything apart from play other peoples music are the ones you should be moaning at, not us. When I play at gigs with other djs, it is almost always the producer djs who impress me most, alot of exclusive tracks, lots of clever mixing and key mixing, lots of live mashups, etc etc etc... the only thing that they often cant do (i cant do it to save my life) is scratching. But whenever a dj scratches in a club it sounds wank if you ask me. the only person ive seen who can make it sound good is zabiela, who to be honest is in a different leauge to any of us altogether. on the other hand u have u guys who dont produce and just think u are the shit for playing other peoples music. if you think you deserve to get booked all round the world to do so, but the people who actually make the music dont deserve to, then you need to go sort your head out. if you dont wana see the producer djs dont go see them, until they get pretty big they dont make much money from gigs, ive done plenty of free gigs in the past simply because i fucking love doing it. its an amazing experience which those who are lucky enough to get the chance to do should be thankful for. anyone who does it for the money lost their passion for music a long long time ago. and the amount that you talk about money and how its not fair that we get paid for this and that makes me think that maybe you lost it a long time ago to, and that maybe you are jealous that we have something that you do not. (this is me sticking up for my beliefs again, don't hate me.. we all have different views and perspectives on things, that was mine coming from a producer who IS being booked primarily for my productions, but who is also putting a fuck load of effort into my djing and who doesnt appriciate people like you assuming that we are half assed and money hungry and that that is the only reason we do it) later i will post a new demo and you can judge for urself whether or not "producer djs" are really that shit. thankyou.

See, all of this is quite valid and applies perfectly to the (epic) trance scene. I even sympathize with your point, the society in general over-rates dj's over producers so much that it isn't funny.

However "real" dj'ing does take skill, and it can be very tricky to perform certain stuff while live. I think there's a space in the scene for the real non-producer dj's who take a lot effort for being creative, even if just playing the tracks of others. Plus, what Ory and others have been moaning about is those producers who release an half-assed track, then jump straight into dj'ing being idolatrized by everyone when they're still learning how to beatmatch, don't have a clue about how to build properly a set and don't do anything at all particularly creative. That's just plain stupid.

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Originally posted by Light The Fuse it doesnt take much skill to be a producer either...a good one..different again

true, anyone can produce. but not everyone can produce well. and even to make a track that you guys would call cheap asot crap takes skill to make. and years of practice and exerperience. apart from every now and then when a lucky ****** makes a half decent tune by fluke.

i think a musical background is crucial if u wana be a good producer. unless u produce techno, then it doesnt really matter!

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Originally posted by paranoik0 Plus, what Ory and others have been moaning about is those producers who release an half-assed track, then jump straight into dj'ing being idolatrized by everyone when they're still learning how to beatmatch, don't have a clue about how to build properly a set and don't do anything at all particularly creative. That's just plain stupid.

yeah fair enough thats true and i totally agree that that takes the piss. but that doesnt apply to MOST producer djs, in fact it hardly applies to any. most will have started djing along side producing when they got into the music anyway. very few djs these days actually have skill. and when i say few i dont mean 5 in the world i mean as a % of all the djs in the world. i dont know about other djs but i take time to make my own edits, mixes, intro edits of the tracks i play so that they suit my style better, and i do lots of live mashups and stuff. i think a better way of putting this is "there are good djs, and there are shit djs" whether or not you produce doesnt matter.. but yes producing is an easy way into the scene. a promoter isnt guna book someone who cant beat match at the end of the day. and if you can beatmatch and people like ur music then alot of clubbers will be happy in most cases.
i dont even know what my point is anymore but i still think im right lol.

mike

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Originally posted by Mike_Foyle usually its the producers who are most experimental and unique when it comes to djing, becasue they know about effects, structures, and loads of other technical shit that ur average dj does not. if u go listen to like mikey mike or Az's mixes in the ameteur dj forum they are shit. just one track then the next waiting till the very last minute to bring the next track in.

No.

So why does most trance sound exactly the same now, then?

Fair enough, they love the music. They see Tiesto, think; "wow, I wanna be like him", they produce a track (out of love, yeah, whatever), but they put no real effort into it. Either that, or they put effort into it, but they actually suck.

See, most people in the scene are not supposed to be doing this for a living. Maybe they're not even supposed to be releasing tracks at all.

Now Mike, have you ever thought to yourself; "Do I sound like everyone else? Or do I make *unique* music?"

There must be something wrong with the music, when many people who have listened to trance for a long time, say everything sounds the same these days. Yet, the people who are new to it, think it's great.

Who are you trying to reach out to? If it's the newbies, then that would make it pop music, basically, except at a lower level. They don't know anything about anything.

I apologize for any stupid comments I made late last night, I was tired and alot was going through my mind.

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike If I wanted to listen to a DJ bang out shit as weak sounding as Andy Moor / Markus Schulz etc. i'd go listen to Armin van Buuren. Nothing fucks me off more than a fan that thinks a DJ can do no wrong. There is a lot of good music out there. How some people can be so easily pleased is beyond my comprehension.

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Originally posted by Cobra Commander Well fuck people need how else would they live ,what I guess it cool to live off your parents like you do right your the dumbass that ruined this thread since you make no valid points

*sigh*

If they're doing it for money, then they're in the wrong industry. Like I said before (which you didn't bother to read. figures.), I have no problem with music that is made out of love and gets popular on its own accord. Music that's been deliberately copied off a popular idea, and is mass-marketed to clueless people, though... well, you should be able to guess what I think about that.

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike If I wanted to listen to a DJ bang out shit as weak sounding as Andy Moor / Markus Schulz etc. i'd go listen to Armin van Buuren. Nothing fucks me off more than a fan that thinks a DJ can do no wrong. There is a lot of good music out there. How some people can be so easily pleased is beyond my comprehension.

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike No.

yopur opinion doesnt matter to me because you cant dj.

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Originally posted by Ory Now Mike, have you ever thought to yourself; "Do I sound like everyone else? Or do I make *unique* music?"

yeah i do my best mate, specially recently. when i first started releasing music i happened to like the sound that was popular at the time, i didnt know much about electronic music. while being unique is important to me its not the only thing that i give a fuck about. i often enjoy music of a particular style that maybe popular. at the end of the day although alot of trance especially sounds the same to most people (including me) there is still good trance and piss poortrance. Anergy - Rivers Place, is the most typical sounding trance track ever, its pure trance, nothing unique at all, but its AMAZING. the production is great, the melody is absolutely mind blowing and it works well in that style. so i like it. you still need to accept that people like what they like man. its not because they are too narrow minded to listen to anything else its because they enjoy it more than everything else. not everyone is the same as you.

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