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Trancer-X
mutatis mutandis



Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Shambhala
Re: Re: Re: Iran War = Inevitable

quote:
Originally posted by TheDemon
Uh...I would watch that last part their buddy. I am Iranian but that doesn't mean I want death on everybody. Why are you being so Stereotypical? Fucking people get your facts straight.


It sucks but you'll have to get used to it. A lot of the people on this board seem to be used to spouting propagandized slogans and catchphrases that they've been unconsciously conditioned to believe in.

Once you learn to spot it for what it is it becomes a lot easier to brush off, though.

Old Post Oct-16-2007 05:36  United States
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

Iran to fire 11000 rockets to enemy bases if attacked

quote:


source:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21389599/


Iran to fire '11,000 rockets in minute' if attacked

Chaharbaghi did not specifically identify the bases or the enemy and did not refer to arch foes Israel or the United States by name. But the U.S. has 40,000 troops on various U.S. bases in other Persian Gulf countries and 20,000 in Mideast waters. Another 160,000 U.S. troops are in neighboring Iraq and about 25,000 are in another one of Iran's neighbors, Afghanistan.

Iran's semiofficial Fars news agency also quoted Chaharbaghi as saying that Iran's radar-avoiding rockets cover the entire Persian Gulf and the entire Iran-Iraq border. Both on state-run TV and in Fars, he only used the word rocket, not missile. A rocket is normally an unguided weapon whereas missiles usually have guidance systems.

Chaharbaghi was quoted by Fars as saying that rockets with a range of 250 kilometers 155 miles will be delivered to the Guards ground force soon. He didn't elaborate.


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Old Post Oct-22-2007 03:42 
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The Arbiter
Senior tranceaddict



Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Sheffield, pondering the shiteness

Rockets have been raining down on Israel for years and the casualties were slight to say the least. Rockets suck.


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Old Post Oct-22-2007 13:27  United Kingdom
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

Well hopefuly Israel will be smart enough not to attempt to bomb Iran since there 11000 rockets are waiting for them if thats the case.


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Old Post Oct-22-2007 15:33 
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Zild
Ten City



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio, US : TXTA #156

quote:
Originally posted by Trancer-X
That's Bill Kristol, cofounder of the Project for a New American Century


A very evil man.


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Old Post Oct-22-2007 15:40  United States
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Marc Summers
I must behave



Registered: Jan 2005
Location: New York, USA

I'll be very happy if Iran stands up for itself.


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Old Post Oct-22-2007 16:19 
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atbell
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by The Arbiter
Rockets have been raining down on Israel for years and the casualties were slight to say the least. Rockets suck.


A friend of mine was doing a tour in Afgan. He said eventually the rockets are just a nuisance.

Old Post Oct-23-2007 00:58  Canada
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

Someone should tell the George this doesn't work on Iran...

Russia and China should continue to oppose these sanctions. What we need to do is take all preconditions for negociations off the table. That'll get things moving. We also need a different president; so do the Iranians.

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071025...gDZbDaa9IKyFz4D

New sanctions levied against Iran

By ANNE GEARAN, AP Diplomatic Writer 54 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The United States announced harsh new penalties on the Iranian military and state-owned banking systems Thursday, raising pressure on the world financial system to cut ties with a regime the West accuses of bankrolling terrorism and seeking a nuclear bomb.

The U.S. sanctions on elements of Iran's vast armed forces and its largest bank are the most sweeping since 1979, when the takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran ruptured diplomatic, business and military ties.

The sanctions are the first of their type imposed by the United States specifically against the armed forces of another government. They are part of the Bush administration's two-track approach to its chief adversary in the Mideast that offsets diplomatic overtures with sanctions, bellicose rhetoric and the implicit threat of military action.

U.S. officials insisted Thursday that the new moves do not hasten war and that the United States remains committed to finding a way to talk Iran out of a nuclear program the U.S. claims is hostile.

The punitive moves directly target Iranian organizations and people the U.S. accuses of supporting terrorism or spreading weapons of mass destruction, but the main effect is likely to fall elsewhere — on European and other overseas banks and firms that do business with oil-rich Iran.

"As awareness of Iran's deceptive behavior has grown, many banks around the world have decided as a matter of prudence and integrity that Iran's business is simply not worth the risk," Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said.

There has been grumbling, mainly in Europe, about earlier U.S. financial sanctions on Iran that overseas bankers found heavy-handed, but Paulson is right that some of Iran's former financial partners have already distanced themselves from Tehran under hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Paulson and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice announced the penalties together, a recognition that a year-old effort to levy unilateral Treasury sanctions has had far greater effect than the diplomatic channels Rice has pursued with Iran.

"Unfortunately the Iranian government continues to spurn our offer of open negotiations, instead threatening peace and security," through its nuclear program, export of ballistic missiles, Rice said, along with what she charged is backing for militants in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and the Palestinian territories.

The latest sanctions will cut off more than 20 Iranian entities, including individuals and companies owned or controlled by the powerful Revolutionary Guard Corps, from the American financial system.

State-owned Bank Melli, Bank Mellat and Bank Saderat were named supporters of global terrorist groups for their activities in Afghanistan, Iraq and the Middle East.

Any assets found in the United States belonging to the designated groups must be frozen. Americans are also forbidden from doing business with those designated organizations.

Bank Melli is Iran's largest. The United States says it provides services to Iran's nuclear and ballistic missile programs. Bank Mellat serves the state Atomic Energy Organization and Bank Saderat routs money to terrorist or militant groups, the administration said.

The administration did not lay out any new evidence for the allegations.

The penalties, some of which have been long expected, were announced an hour before Rice faced scathing questions from congressional Democrats on Iraq, and in the midst of embarrassing revelations about lapses in the State Department's management of private security guards in Iraq.

The designations put companies outside the United States on notice that doing business with the designated groups could put them at risk of U.S. financial penalty.

The United States has the world's largest economy and the most influential banking system, and much of the world's business is done in dollars.

Paulson said it is nearly impossible for overseas businesses or banks to "know one's customer" in Iran and avoid unwittingly funding terrorism or other illicit activities.

Iran's Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps and its Ministry of Defense and Armed Forces Logistics were designated proliferators of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missile technology.

The Revolutionary Guards is the largest component of Iran's military and has influence in business and other spheres. The defense ministry entity is the parent organization for Iran's aerospace and ballistic missile operations.

The Quds Force, which was named a supporter of designated terrorist organizations, is a part of the Guard Corps that Washington accuses of providing weapons, including powerful explosives blamed for the deaths of U.S. soldiers in Iraq.

In Iran, the Guards' chief shrugged off the U.S. pressure.

"They have applied all their efforts to reduce the efficiency of this revolutionary body," General Mohammad Ali Jafari said, according to the state news agency IRNA. "Now as always, the corps is ready to defend the ideals of the revolution more than ever before."

The United States has long labeled Iran a state supporter of terrorism and has been working for years to gain support for tougher global sanctions aimed at keeping the country from developing nuclear weapons.

The Bush administration has won two rounds of watered-down U.N. Security Council sanctions but has been frustrated by months of delay in seeking a third, tougher set of penalties.

Iran has ignored the U.N. sanctions and an offer from European nations that do extensive business with Iran would give the oil-rich country economic and other incentives in exchange for dropping nuclear activities that could produce a bomb.

Iran is continuing work on its nuclear program, which it says is peaceful.

Russia's President Vladimir Putin warned Thursday against new international sanctions on Iran, saying they would lead to a dead end.

"Why worsen the situation by threatening sanctions and bring it to a dead end?" Putin said, referring to the U.S. push for the third set of penalties. "It's not the best way to resolve the situation by running around like a madman with a razor blade in his hand."

Russia and China, which hold veto power at the U.N. Security Council, are allies or business partners of Iran and are the chief holdup for the new sanctions sought by the United States.


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Old Post Oct-25-2007 21:00  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

wow these fuckin assholes dont realise that these fuckin sanctions wont hurt the government at all.The ones they will suffer from this are the people.All these sanctions will backfire at them without a doubt.The people will start taking sides with the regime.I highly doubt the U.S wants this to happen but thats exactly what the sanctions will do.


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Old Post Oct-26-2007 02:33 
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

The Bush admin's philosophy of regime change for non-conforming oil producing nations will fly back right their faces... The Iranian people will never choose an Iraq-style regime change over their own government. Additionally, it is not just Iran we have to worry about, but Iran's major trading partners who both are on the UN Security Council providing a power balance to the West. That is China and Russia.

I believe the solution is...
1. Withdraw from Iraq
2. Take all preconditions for negotiation off the table
3. Exhaustive diplomacy with Iran and Syria

Instead the administration is ratcheting up tensions. Remember just before World War II, the USA slapped sanctions on Japan preventing trade in oil and other essential goods for Japan. This much more likely pushed Japan towards war than towards peace. Sanctions are best used in situations that are appropriate such as violation of sovereignty or genocides. But these sanctions on Iran are premeditated, without Iran ever violating another country's sovereignty, nor are they committing a genocide. There is no reason for these sanctions...

-------------------------------------------------------------

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071025...IGjcScTAZSROrgF

Iranians complaining about economic woes

By NASSER KARIMI, Associated Press Writer Thu Oct 25, 4:39 PM ET

TEHRAN, Iran - Despite the government's insistence that U.S. and U.N. sanctions aren't causing any pain, some leading Iranians have begun to say publicly that the pressure does hurt. And on Tehran's streets, people are increasingly worried over the economic pinch.

The sanctions have heightened resentment of the United States among some in the public. But they are also fueling criticism among Iranian politicians that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is mismanaging the crisis with hard-line stances that worsen the standoff with the West.

Washington announced new sanctions Thursday, targeting Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards, which the U.S. accuses of supporting terrorism by backing Shiite militants in Iraq. The sanctions ban U.S. dealings with the extensive network of businesses believed linked to the Guards — and put stepped-up pressure on international banks to cut any ties with those firms.

The sanctions come at a time when Iran's economy is struggling, with dramatic price rises this year. The cost of housing and basic foodstuffs like vegetables have doubled or even quadrupled. The government also has imposed unpopular fuel rationing in an attempt to reduce expensive subsidies for imported gasoline.

Word of the U.S. move angered people in Tehran.

"The sanctions will damage us, our children and our people and not the government. Prices of everything increased up to double after former sanctions by the U.N.," said Morteza Morovvati, a 45-year-old teacher. "Who in the world and the Iranian government is going to care about ordinary people?"

Hashem Nazari, a retired clerk for an electricity equipment company, said that even before the new U.S. sanctions on some Iranian banks, his son living in Germany could not send him money through the banks.

"For the past two months, he has sent me money through private money exchangers," Nazari said.

Still, much of the anger appeared focused at the West.

"This will be another step by (President) Bush toward igniting war in the region," Mansour Rasti, 28, a graduate student in political science, said of the new sanctions.

Marzieh Aghai, a 37-year-old government bureaucrat, said she would support her country no matter what. "They (the Americans) don't know the Guards. We are proud of them."

Ahmadinejad and his allies are likely counting on sanctions to rally Iranians against the United States.

"Hard-liners in Tehran were looking forward for the sanctions. It helps them hide their incompetence behind the embargo," said political commentator, Saeed Laylaz.

But the new sanctions could worsen Ahmadinejad's political woes. Many conservatives who once backed him have joined reformers in criticizing Ahmadinejad. They point to his failure to fulfill promises to repair the economy — despite increased oil revenues — and say his fiery rhetoric goads the West into punishing Iran.

Ahmadinejad's sudden replacement of Iran's top nuclear negotiator with a close loyalist over the weekend also angered many conservatives in parliament.

Worry over sanctions has been increasingly expressed by figures high up in Iran's clerical leadership. Earlier this month, Hasan Rowhani, who sits on two powerful cleric-run bodies, the Experts Assembly and the Expediency Council, said that "the economic impact is felt in the life of the people." He said Ahmadinejad has just been making more enemies for Iran.

On Sunday, Ahmadinejad's predecessor as president, Mohammad Khatami, a reformer who remains influential, complained that Ahmadinejad claims "problems have been resolved but we see that problems remain unresolved."

The Bush administration hopes its new sanctions will push companies around the world to cut their business ties with Iran. "It is increasingly likely that if you are doing business with Iran you are doing business with the IRGC," Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said, referring to the Guards.

So far, the response of Ahmadinejad's government to sanctions, including past rounds by the United States and the U.N. Security Council, has been defiance.

Ahmadinejad on Wednesday called earlier U.N. sanctions, which similarly punish a list of Iranian companies believed linked to the nuclear program, "a pile of papers that have no value."

On Thursday, Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman, Mohammad Ali Hosseini, called the new U.S. measures "worthless and ineffective" and said they were "doomed to fail as before."

But the sanctions could increase Iran's isolation from international financing.

Most notably, the new sanctions ban dealings with two major Iranian banks, Bank Melli and Bank Mellat, adding them to a list of already banned banks. That means the banks will have difficulty turning to European banks for dollars, said Matthew Levitt, a former U.S. Treasury Department terrorism expert now with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy.


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Old Post Oct-26-2007 02:46  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

Great article Krypton.

Iam so upset and sad for the people of Iran who have to suffer from all this.

Do they truly believe these sanctions is going to cripple the revolutionary guard?


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Old Post Oct-26-2007 03:12 
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

Despite a lack of direct evidence, several western governments are already making it out as if the Iranians are hell-bent on a nuclear weapon. My issue isn't whether they are right or wrong; my issue is that there is no evidence to support the view that Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon. That assertion is mere speculation and is NOT justification for war at all. If the Bush admin attacks Iran, the entire region might descend into a war. Turkey is already mobilized on Iraq's northern border. The PKK are pissing both Iran and Turkey off. Shiite and Sunni militias are the norm rather than exception in Iraq. Things are ugly now; but things could get disfiguratively ugly...

===-=============--==============-=-=-=--===========

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071028/ap_on_re_us/us_iran

Anti-Iran rhetoric raises UN concerns

Sun Oct 28, 4:32 PM ET

WASHINGTON - The head of the U.N. nuclear watchdog said Sunday he had no evidence Iran was working actively to build nuclear weapons and expressed concern that escalating rhetoric from the U.S. could bring disaster.

"We have information that there has been maybe some studies about possible weaponization," said Mohamed ElBaradei, who leads the International Atomic Energy Agency. "That's why we have said that we cannot give Iran a pass right now, because there is still a lot of question marks."

"But have we seen Iran having the nuclear material that can readily be used into a weapon? No. Have we seen an active weaponization program? No." Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Iran this month of "lying" about the aim of its nuclear program. She said there is no doubt Tehran wants the capability to produce nuclear weapons and has deceived the IAEA about its intentions.

Vice President Dick Cheney has raised the prospect of "serious consequences" if Iran were found to be working toward developing a nuclear weapon. Last week, the Bush administration announced harsh penalties against the Iranian military and state-owned banking systems in hopes of raising pressure on the world financial system to cut ties with Tehran.

ElBaradei said he was worried about the growing rhetoric from the U.S., which he noted focused on Iran's alleged intentions to build a nuclear weapon rather than evidence the country was actively doing so. If there is actual evidence, ElBaradei said he would welcome seeing it.

"I'm very much concerned about confrontation, building confrontation, because that would lead absolutely to a disaster. I see no military solution. The only durable solution is through negotiation and inspection," he said.

"My fear is that if we continue to escalate from both sides that we will end up into a precipice, we will end up into an abyss. As I said, the Middle East is in a total mess, to say the least. And we cannot add fuel to the fire," ElBaradei added.

Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, agreed that the current "hot rhetoric" from the U.S. could prove dangerous.

"We ought to make it clear that there's always a military option if Iran goes nuclear, but that we ought to just speak more softly because these hot words that are coming out of the administration, this hot rhetoric plays right into the hands of the fanatics in Iran," said Levin, D-Mich.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said strong action might be needed because he does not believe the United Nations adequately has kept Iran in check.

"I think the United Nations' efforts to sanction Iran have been pitiful because of Russia and China vetoing a resolution. The European Union has some sanctions. They're fairly weak."

"So in this regard, I agree with the following, that the diplomatic efforts to control Iran need to continue. They need to be more robust but we're sending mixed signals," Graham said.

ElBaradei spoke on CNN's "Late Edition," and Levin and Graham appeared on CBS' "Face the Nation."


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Old Post Oct-29-2007 03:46  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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