alright its time to bring out a chop i did a long time ago

I prefer Unicornegasus.

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quote:

Originally posted by nefardec you just have to consider that a lot of people listen to music not because they really like the music itself but because they are attached to emotions and thoughts that are associated with it due to cultural conditioning, group behavior, and experience. also, I firmly believe that most people wouldn't be stuck in these musical ruts if they were just exposed to other kinds of music. not enough people listen to mingus, but if they did I'm sure they'd appreciate him. That said, because of certain social preconditions that I described above, some people will be turned off by it without even really hearing the music. I feel that people come along a continuum - basically you have materialists/extroverts who tend to reflect 'vibes' without really taking them in, and you have immaterialists/introverts who receive and resonate with these 'vibes'. Some people just don't feel the vibes. By 'vibe' i mean the energetic vibration which is the essence of music. The only level at which they can appreciate music is on the surface, that is, how popular it is, how fun the parties are, how hot the singer is, or maybe some sort of cultural connection like the angsty teenage girl thing you highlighted

I agree. Your observations on the human continuum brings to mind the nature of maturity. In essence, the music I listened to as a child is not the music I have an interest in, now. Van Halen's 1984 is now a passing thought. Even music I listened to, religiously, three years or more ago isn't necessarily any more present in my library than Van Halen. It's not that Van Halen fans are immature. It's more that I've moved on. I've heard it enough to know what's coming every time I hear it and have no more use for it. Basically, I'm bored of it.

What's more is that with my own personal continuum, there seems to be a social continuum, where technology, as it allows for a more precise exercise of production values, also has an influence on the way music is created and therefore an influence on the music, itself.

At some point, it seems, a lot of people will have their maturity impeded. Here, in the crux of the situation, people are wont to hold onto old ideas and old values; that passing moment from which arises all sorts of motivations to include sentimentality as well as slothfulness.

You mention the perception of music and I'm wondering if that has simply to do with any music being superficially experienced or if is a bit of a two-way street - that it also applies to the level of intimacy, in its aural presentation, a particular mix will provide - that there therefore will be people who will only prefer things which are superficial in nature. Pink Floyd, for instance, tends to surround rather than simply being observed. Motley Crue, no matter how loud you play it, does not and cannot envelope. It is just there, like a picture hanging on the wall.

I try to have an open ear to all music but there is just some that never will resonate with me. Even old artists, such as Van Halen, don't have the capacity for envelopment. I will always experience them as though they were something which was being observed (as though a picture of a tree) rather than experienced (as though actually climbing one).

As far as composition goes, its one of the reasons I tend to tread lightly insofar as limiters are concerned. I'm not out to win any loudness wars. I'd rather the peaks peak than have everything muddled. It gives space to the more quiet parts that might be obliterated if everything were jacked up to 11. I'm not saying my mixes are perfect or even loud enough. It's just that my compositions tend to be dense (I'm no minimalist) and I therefore try and create as much space (for P.L.U.R. & unicorns) as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker I agree. Your observations on the human continuum brings to mind the nature of maturity. In essence, the music I listened to as a child is not the music I have an interest in, now. Van Halen's 1984 is now a passing thought. Even music I listened to, religiously, three years or more ago isn't necessarily any more present in my library than Van Halen. It's not that Van Halen fans are immature. It's more that I've moved on. I've heard it enough to know what's coming every time I hear it and have no more use for it. Basically, I'm bored of it. What's more is that with my own personal continuum, there seems to be a social continuum, where technology, as it allows for a more precise exercise of production values, also has an influence on the way music is created and therefore an influence on the music, itself. At some point, it seems, a lot of people will have their maturity impeded. Here, in the crux of the situation, people are wont to hold onto old ideas and old values; that passing moment from which arises all sorts of motivations to include sentimentality as well as slothfulness. You mention the perception of music and I'm wondering if that has simply to do with any music being superficially experienced or if is a bit of a two-way street - that it also applies to the level of intimacy, in its aural presentation, a particular mix will provide - that there therefore will be people who will only prefer things which are superficial in nature. Pink Floyd, for instance, tends to surround rather than simply being observed. Motley Crue, no matter how loud you play it, does not and cannot envelope. It is just there, like a picture hanging on the wall. I try to have an open ear to all music but there is just some that never will resonate with me. Even old artists, such as Van Halen, don't have the capacity for envelopment. I will always experience them as though they were something which was being observed (as though a picture of a tree) rather than experienced (as though actually climbing one). As far as composition goes, its one of the reasons I tend to tread lightly insofar as limiters are concerned. I'm not out to win any loudness wars. I'd rather the peaks peak than have everything muddled. It gives space to the more quiet parts that might be obliterated if everything were jacked up to 11. I'm not saying my mixes are perfect or even loud enough. It's just that my compositions tend to be dense (I'm no minimalist) and I therefore try and create as much space (for P.L.U.R. & unicorns) as possible.

I agree about the two-way street. Your mention of the picture of a tree is interesting, because now we can talk about the image and the figure. It seems to me a lot of new trance music is concerned with the observation and romanticism of the figure rather than with the generative mechanism and the innate sonic quality itself.

So either the focus is on the figure, the image, or what the figure represents.

We can talk about plato's cave here. There are people who will always hear music and react to the images without turning around 180 degrees to see what is making the images. People will attribute meaning to the images and develop languages and then more languages that give meaning to those languages...

I feel that music is one of the most direct ways to perform this 'looking behind', to see 'what is' in a very honest way.

and i still believe that most music has this quality to a degree, and that's why it continues to occupy an important position in our lives.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN ...Cradle of Filth's lusty vampyreles and horny transexual midgets...)

lol, no wonder i used to be into them

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quote:

Originally posted by nefardec We can talk about plato's cave here. There are people who will always hear music and react to the images without turning around 180 degrees to see what is making the images. People will attribute meaning to the images and develop languages and then more languages that give meaning to those languages... I feel that music is one of the most direct ways to perform this 'looking behind', to see 'what is' in a very honest way. and i still believe that most music has this quality to a degree, and that's why it continues to occupy an important position in our lives.

I love you, Vana.

What a spot on analogy this is - although I do think it bears some more hashing out. If I could apply the analogy a bit more broadly, I think that in general one could pretty easily say that individuals whose music tastes are dictated solely by what they hear on the radio, see on the charts, or can in general be referred to as "pop/mainstream" (even within specific genres) music fans, are more often than not (maybe exclusively) the prisoners in Plato's cave, and it isn't necessarily their "fault" for being so - they just lack the interest to break free of those chains, and are at times perfectly happy with that. As they should be.

The "elitists" in this analogy map pretty well onto the philosophers in Plato's cave, which is quite humorous to me considering philosophers and so-called "elitists" seem to be despised equally for similar reasons. Imagine what it's like to fall into BOTH camps!

So in the end, who is wrong here? Are the prisoners wrong for being happy with what they've got and not digging any deeper? Or are the elitist-philosophers wrong for loving what they do too much?

It occurs to me that the answer is neither, yet each side is perfectly likely to feel offended or irritated by the natural actions of the other.

And so we'll have this thread again in 2010 just like we are now, and like we did last year and every year before.

It's a very natural conflict, at least in my eyes, and occurs on a daily basis not just here, but everywhere.

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quote:

Originally posted by lücid less talk, more unicorn pictures.

Not a problem:



...

I am a horrible procrastinator.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.