renegade and occrider: ur making good points. but toobad for u the bible is a frought!!! it is written by some group called the temple nights and they use it to control all the stupid ppl in the wordl. bush is a temple night think, about it!

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Originally posted by Mebot I would think it would be natural calamities and/or occurances that people couldn't understand so they alligned it with a higher deity. Why did my crops die? the god of water is angry why did my first born son die? god is angry who should i give thanks for my bountiful crop? let's give thanks to crop god. etc... I think that it just escalated or diversified from there.

well exactly...that's what i think too...


i guess my point then would be...if that is ridiculous ...then isn't it also ridiculous to believe something similar these days simply because its been taught to you your entire life?

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I cannot say for sure what books were writen in what languages. All four of the Gospels were origionally written in Greek. Most of the Old testimate was in Aramaic (thanks for the spelling correction) but I cannot which were in which language. When discussing the bible you have to take the Roman Catholic Church as the ultimate authority because all Christian bibles (even the orthodoxed) are writen based on books held as property of the Vatican. Granted the Vatican does allow some people from outside their organization to look at them from time to time but they have never released any of them to outside scrutiny. As per the dead sea scrolls, you must remember that none of them are accepted as being part of the bible or written by god, however, that may change in time. Additionally, the Vatican owns most of these (which is a bothersome thing as they refuse to release them) and have only allowed parts to be translated. What I find most interesting about the dead sea scrolls is the rumour that there are two that are writen by a man named jesus that have been carbon dated to the same period as Jesus, however, our good friends at the Vatican are staying tight lipped. I cannot confirm that to be true and I have not examined the validity of the claim but I would not discount it all together. I guess my position on the dead sea scrolls is that other then the ones owned by Isreal and released to the general public we know nothing about them.

Was it Stigmata that was about that? I heard that this may be false, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Catholic Church held back information that was contradictory to their bureaucracy and money-making machine. Especially if it's in regard to worship and the idea that Church is not essential for it. I agree with this, regardless of other doctrines, or lack thereof. I do, however, believe Church is important in that one seeks fellowship there, and being around other believers is encouraging.

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Originally posted by Floorfiller well exactly...that's what i think too... i guess my point then would be...if its ridiculous for that is ridiculous...then isn't it also ridiculous to believe something similar these days simply because its been taught to you your entire life?

Valid point, it's one of those things that people question in theology.

When it gets to the point where someone can't explain it any further than that and all they can say is "It's FAITH"... well it gets redundant after awhile.

I'm torn between the two. I have faith but I still question it and have my doubts. That's why i tend to stay out of theological debates but i like listening to all arguments and theories.

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Originally posted by trancaholic renegade and occrider: ur making good points. but toobad for u the bible is a frought!!! it is written by some group called the temple nights and they use it to control all the stupid ppl in the wordl. bush is a temple night think, about it!

Wow. Got any more great conspiracy theories for us?

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Old Norsk Sessions every 4th Monday from 4-6pm EST on Digitally Imported Radio (Progressive Station), and 7pm CET on Trance.fm every 1st Saturday

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Originally posted by NiteMer Wow. Got any more great conspiracy theories for us?

seriously, they have proof!!!1

stop being ignorant and deny the obvious

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Originally posted by Mebot Valid point, it's one of those things that people question in theology. When it gets to the point where someone can't explain it any further than that and all they can say is "It's FAITH"... well it gets redundant after awhile. I'm torn between the two. I have faith but I still question it and have my doubts. That's why i tend to stay out of theological debates but i like listening to all arguments and theories.

yeah pretty much...i have done my arguing about it and its left me very unsatisfied...unfortunately i just chalk it up to people's ability to reason. i just find it kind of ironic that if you ask someone what they think of your typical person's intelligence...they would say they were all idiots, but then magically somehow 95% of the world have got things right when it comes to their various religious beliefs...so yes as terrible as it sounds, that's usually how i feel about it...

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Originally posted by NiteMer Was it Stigmata that was about that? I heard that this may be false, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Catholic Church held back information that was contradictory to their bureaucracy and money-making machine. Especially if it's in regard to worship and the idea that Church is not essential for it. I agree with this, regardless of other doctrines, or lack thereof. I do, however, believe Church is important in that one seeks fellowship there, and being around other believers is encouraging.

Actually, the current doctrine of the Roman Catholic church is that you do have a personal relationship with God and that you are able to express that relationship without the physical church itself, however, participation in the sacrament of the Eucerist is an affirmation of your relationship with God and it is through this that we are made new (forgiven our sins). Therefore it is not necessary to go to church but you may want to stop by for communion before you die.

I agree with you that if the Vatican were in possession of anything that would disrupt the status quo they would not release it, however, in addition to the obvious selfish money reasons there are other valid reasons. Imagine if a billion Roman Catholics all of a suddon were told that what the church had been telling them for centuries was wrong. Additionally, all the protestant sects would have to acknowledge that if Roman Catholocism is wrong then so are we as we are based on it. Not only would people abandon the church but they would also question everything that is a derivative of the church. This would be especially true in the less enlightened societies. In those areas chaos would likely abound as the entire authority structure and legal system is largely based on christian morality. Important changes have to be made slowly when you're talking about something as large as the spirituality of 3 billion people.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by NiteMer Wow. Got any more great conspiracy theories for us?

ITS NOT A THEORY!!!! its a fact!! if u look in the internet u see a lot of proof, disovery channel has programs too - but go ahead - be one off the stupid ppl fooled! bet bush is laffing real hard at u

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Wow. Got any more great conspiracy theories for us?

LOL

i know. morans like him will beleive ANY crazy theories there told

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

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Originally posted by Mebot I would think it would be natural calamities and/or occurances that people couldn't understand so they alligned it with a higher deity. Why did my crops die? the god of water is angry why did my first born son die? god is angry who should i give thanks for my bountiful crop? let's give thanks to crop god. etc... I think that it just escalated or diversified from there.

My personal thinking is that God created man. Man then created a belief system to explain all the unexplainable which he then called GOD. Now that man can explain much of what was earlier thought to be the domain of GOD man has turned away from GOD, however, God is unchanged.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Actually, the current doctrine of the Roman Catholic church is that you do have a personal relationship with God and that you are able to express that relationship without the physical church itself, however, participation in the sacrament of the Eucerist is an affirmation of your relationship with God and it is through this that we are made new (forgiven our sins). Therefore it is not necessary to go to church but you may want to stop by for communion before you die. I agree with you that if the Vatican were in possession of anything that would disrupt the status quo they would not release it, however, in addition to the obvious selfish money reasons there are other valid reasons. Imagine if a billion Roman Catholics all of a suddon were told that what the church had been telling them for centuries was wrong. Additionally, all the protestant sects would have to acknowledge that if Roman Catholocism is wrong then so are we as we are based on it. Not only would people abandon the church but they would also question everything that is a derivative of the church. This would be especially true in the less enlightened societies. In those areas chaos would likely abound as the entire authority structure and legal system is largely based on christian morality. Important changes have to be made slowly when you're talking about something as large as the spirituality of 3 billion people.

This is something I don't get. Give me a verse that says one must take communion for salvation. Jesus says, "Do this in remembrance of me", not do this to be saved. I think communion is important as an act of obedience to God, as is baptism, but there isn't any scripture that says they are necessary for salvation.

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Old Norsk Sessions every 4th Monday from 4-6pm EST on Digitally Imported Radio (Progressive Station), and 7pm CET on Trance.fm every 1st Saturday