i think this is the root to all middle eastern problems

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quote:

Originally posted by IlanG Hamas had been firing morats from outside the school. There are IAF footages that show and prove this. Israel is considering filing an official complaint to the UN regarding this.

Boofuckinghoo

So that gives Israel the right to do terrorist attacks by killing civilians?

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Originally posted by Krypton Hamas is not the Nazi Party. That's what negates his argument. It's a false comparison.

that's not an argument krypton, you're basically saying analogies are invalid by their own nature (by not elaborating on what invalidates this particular analogy).

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quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T that's not an argument krypton, you're basically saying analogies are invalid by their own nature (by not elaborating on what invalidates this particular analogy).

Ok, so Palestinians voted for Hamas just as the Germans for the Nazi Party...great, so does the invalidate all other free and fair elections? Since we're going on that logic...

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I reckon we should send people from all around the world (e.g. those starving guys in Africa, and some extra male peasants from Western China) to Israel/Palestine and create a multicultural state where everyone is a minority. For good measure, we should also teach them how to speak Cree, and make it their lingua franca. Extremists would soon be outnumbered and fractured, so they would be no different than any nutty minor political party in the US, for example. They should also have the right to pick a new name, preferably a neuter one like "Eastern Mediterranea", or something of that sort.

There's no way this could possibly go wrong, hah!

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Ok, so Palestinians voted for Hamas just as the Germans for the Nazi Party...great, so does the invalidate all other free and fair elections? Since we're going on that logic...

it doesn't invalidate anything.

Fir3start3r said "Maybe the people there shouldn't have voted in their own demise?"
hardcore trancer replied "wow so you gonna come and tell them who then vote for or not?They voted freely for Hamas.The world should resepect that."

in a somewhat radical interpretation, what it does do is remove the automatic tag of innocence bestowed on palestine's civilian citizens.


to elaborate a bit:
if you vote for a political party whose platform includes "death to all people named alon" or something along those lines, and that party wins the elctions.. shouldn't i hold you as partly guilty for any attempts to kill me (be they successfull or not)?

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Last edited by Psy-T on Jan-07-2009 at 00:39

quote:

Originally posted by Lemonad Boofuckinghoo So that gives Israel the right to do terrorist attacks by killing civilians?

where've you been dude? everyone already knows Hamas purposely sets up their HQ's and operations facilities in the middle of densley packed civillian areas because they know what will happen, and how they'll be able to exploit civillian suffering to the world. If you think Hamas gives a rat's ass about the normal people of Gaza, I want what you're smoking. They're just pawns in their parasitic game.

quote:

from Jan 2, 2009 Hamas - Fathi Hamad by bivouac-id translation: For the Palestinian people, death has become an industry In which excel the women and all the people of this land: The older people excel, the jihadists excel And the children excel Consequently, [the Palestinians] created a human shield of women, children Older people and jihadists Against the Zionist bombing machine That is telling the Zionist enemy We want death just as much as you desire life.

these fucknuts, this DEATH CULT, is willing to do anything and kill anybody (women, children, the elderly, rival militants) in their war of perception. it's the only war they are capable of winning and have been excelling at it for decades.

i say Israel should cease fire immediately regardless of the loss in tactical advantage and have Olmert (preferably Livni) call a special session of the UN Security Council or even the entire UN and start pounding fists on a podium (MAKE IT A FUCKING SPECTACLE IF YOU HAVE TO!!!) and bring all the evidence you've got of human rights and basic LOAC violations perptrated by the Hamas government.

Last edited by Q5echo on Jan-07-2009 at 02:03

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T it doesn't invalidate anything. Fir3start3r said "Maybe the people there shouldn't have voted in their own demise?" hardcore trancer replied "wow so you gonna come and tell them who then vote for or not?They voted freely for Hamas.The world should resepect that." in a somewhat radical interpretation, what it does do is remove the automatic tag of innocence bestowed on palestine's civilian citizens. to elaborate a bit: if you vote for a political party whose platform includes "death to all people named alon" or something along those lines, and that party wins the elctions.. shouldn't i hold you as partly guilty for any attempts to kill me (be they successfull or not)?

What you left out is the very real grievances with which the Palestinians have. Namely, the blockade. I view, as would most countries, a blockade to be an act of war. So whatever retaliation Gaza's rulers have undertaken is justified. I'm not going to fall for this, "The Palestinians are just blood thirsty killers" argument.

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Some 'moral clarity' for those that can't shake the Palestinian propaganda machine...

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January 02, 2009 A Real Cease-Fire Needed in Gaza By Charles Krauthammer Late Saturday, thousands of Gazans received Arabic-language cell-phone messages from the Israeli military, urging them to leave homes where militants might have stashed weapons. -- Associated Press, Dec. 27 WASHINGTON -- Some geopolitical conflicts are morally complicated. The Israel-Gaza war is not. It possesses a moral clarity not only rare but excruciating. Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Hamas, which started this conflict with unrelenting rocket and mortar attacks on unarmed Israelis -- 6,464 launched from Gaza in the last three years -- deliberately places its weapons in and near the homes of its own people. This has two purposes. First, counting on the moral scrupulousness of Israel, Hamas figures civilian proximity might help protect at least part of its arsenal. Second, knowing that Israelis have new precision weapons that may allow them to attack nonetheless, Hamas hopes that inevitable collateral damage -- or, if it is really fortunate, an errant Israeli bomb -- will kill large numbers of its own people for which, of course, the world will blame Israel. For Hamas the only thing more prized than dead Jews are dead Palestinians. The religion of Jew-murder and self-martyrdom is ubiquitous. And deeply perverse, such as the Hamas TV children's program in which an adorable live-action Palestinian Mickey Mouse is beaten to death by an Israeli (then replaced by his more militant cousin, Nahoul the Bee, who vows to continue on Mickey's path to martyrdom). At war today in Gaza, one combatant is committed to causing the most civilian pain and suffering on both sides. The other combatant is committed to saving as many lives as possible -- also on both sides. It's a recurring theme. Israel gave similar warnings to Southern Lebanese villagers before attacking Hezbollah in the Lebanon war of 2006. The Israelis did this knowing it would lose for them the element of surprise and cost the lives of their own soldiers. That is the asymmetry of means between Hamas and Israel. But there is equal clarity regarding the asymmetry of ends. Israel has but a single objective in Gaza -- peace: the calm, open, normal relations it offered Gaza when it withdrew in 2005. Doing something never done by the Turkish, British, Egyptian and Jordanian rulers of Palestine, the Israelis gave the Palestinians their first sovereign territory ever in Gaza. What ensued? This is not ancient history. Did the Palestinians begin building the state that is supposedly their great national aim? No. No roads, no industry, no courts, no civil society at all. The flourishing greenhouses that Israel left behind for the Palestinians were destroyed and abandoned. Instead, Gaza's Iranian-sponsored rulers have devoted all their resources to turning it into a terror base -- importing weapons, training terrorists, building tunnels with which to kidnap Israelis on the other side. And of course firing rockets unceasingly. The grievance? It cannot be occupation, military control or settlers. They were all removed in September 2005. There's only one grievance and Hamas is open about it. Israel's very existence. Nor does Hamas conceal its strategy. Provoke conflict. Wait for the inevitable civilian casualties. Bring down the world's opprobrium on Israel. Force it into an untenable cease-fire -- exactly as happened in Lebanon. Then, as in Lebanon, rearm, rebuild and mobilize for the next round. Perpetual war. Since its raison d'etre is the eradication of Israel, there are only two possible outcomes: the defeat of Hamas or the extinction of Israel. Israel's only response is to try to do what it failed to do after the Gaza withdrawal. The unpardonable strategic error of its architect, Ariel Sharon, was not the withdrawal itself but the failure to immediately establish a deterrence regime under which no violence would be tolerated after the removal of any and all Israeli presence -- the ostensible justification for previous Palestinian attacks. Instead, Israel allowed unceasing rocket fire, implicitly acquiescing to a state of active war and indiscriminate terror. Hamas' rejection of an extension of its often-violated six-month cease-fire (during which the rockets never stopped, just were less frequent) gave Israel a rare opportunity to establish the norm it should have insisted upon three years ago: no rockets, no mortar fire, no kidnapping, no acts of war. As the U.S. government has officially stated: a sustainable and enduring cease-fire. If this fighting ends with anything less than that, Israel will have lost again. It can ill afford to lose any more wars.

>>Source<<

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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Some 'moral clarity' for those that can't shake the Palestinian propaganda machine... >>Source<<

Stop spamming Israelipropaganda bullshit here.

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton What you left out is the very real grievances with which the Palestinians have. Namely, the blockade. I view, as would most countries, a blockade to be an act of war. So whatever retaliation Gaza's rulers have undertaken is justified. I'm not going to fall for this, "The Palestinians are just blood thirsty killers" argument.

You are setting new levels of stupidity and ignorance.

Hamas is not firing rockets at Israel because the latter put a blockade on Gaza.
It is the other way around: Israel put the blockade because Hamas was firing rockets at Israel.
Hamas is firing rockets at Israel for 8 years now, Israel (and Egypt) deployed the blockade in June 2007.

Last edited by IlanG on Jan-07-2009 at 06:02