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Originally posted by Yohan did you have a look at these so called exorcism clips on youtube?

I wouldn't base my belief or non-belief of something in that at all. There are plenty of very reputable-looking books that will convincingly tell you about how to use rocks and crystals to cure diseases. Youtube is an even worse source.

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot Dude. Are you totally not getting it? They are FAKE.

one helluva acting class they all must have taken

i dont know exorcisms are indeed real or not, but since i dont believe science has proven itself or developed sufficiently to answer all the phenomenons, i like to keep an open mind

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by El K Dee i'm not the one trying to prove my intelligence the way you are

If you actually criticized my arguments, I might have something intelligent to say to you in reply. There is no need to turn this into a pissing match.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Elyot I wouldn't base my belief or non-belief of something in that at all. There are plenty of very reputable-looking books that will convincingly tell you about how to use rocks and crystals to cure diseases. Youtube is an even worse source.

quite convenient when you can discredit evidence by claiming the source is flawed

edit: damn you people. i'm suppose to be packing for moving, not reading TA

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Yohan one helluva acting class they all must have taken i dont know exorcisms are indeed real or not, but since i dont believe science has proven itself or developed sufficiently to answer all the phenomenons, i like to keep an open mind

Fair enough. I justify my rejection of these notions for the same reason that I reject the notion of bigfoot, cthulu, or invisible pink unicorns. If something doesn't make any logical sense to me at all, I'd prefer to think it was false until proven otherwise. Probabilistically speaking, I think it's much more likely that ALL exorcism videos are fake than any of them are real.

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot If you actually criticized my arguments, I might have something intelligent to say to you in reply. There is no need to turn this into a pissing match.

i dont want to read anything from you to me. really no point in it. i just dont approve of your "smarter than thou" attitude when you cant even comprehend the language you're using as your medium of communication

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Originally posted by Yohan quite convenient when you can discredit evidence by claiming the source is flawed edit: damn you people. i'm suppose to be packing for moving, not reading TA

Ah' come on Yohan--there is evidence, and then there is evidence.

I don't think we're actually in disagreement here; the three of us. I will call these events delusional insofar as I can conclude that the probability of the existence of evil spirits, and spirits taking control of a human body, are very,very,very,very low. My answer is simply based on our current standard model of logic and physics. Having said that, no, I can't rationally rule it out a 100 percent--so no worries Yohan, our minds are all open.

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Originally posted by Yohan quite convenient when you can discredit evidence by claiming the source is flawed edit: damn you people. i'm suppose to be packing for moving, not reading TA

I'm just saying, if you want me to believe, show me a repeatable experiment performed under controlled conditions that exhibits the phenomenon in question. If you can do that, then I'll gladly believe you. Youtube videos do not constitute proof, and the circumstantial evidence they provide is, in my opinion, extremely weak and unconvincing. Forgive me for being a skeptic. Maybe you find them more convincing.

Also, I don't necessarily think that acting is happening. Maybe those people really think they are being exorcised. Same as the acid in the bottle. Maybe the priest really thinks he's exorcising them. Doesn't mean it's really happening. Human brains are weird.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Elyot Fair enough. I justify my rejection of these notions for the same reason that I reject the notion of bigfoot, cthulu, or invisible pink unicorns. If something doesn't make any logical sense to me at all, I'd prefer to think it was false until proven otherwise.

is it because it makes no logical sense, or because you just dont understand it?

quote:

Probabilistically speaking, I think it's much more likely that ALL exorcism videos are fake than any of them are real.

they should all be hired by Hollywood eh? without any props and in front of lot of witnesses to pull off very convincing act... well, make at least a reality show out of it

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Originally posted by evil_cookie Ah' come on Yohan--there is evidence, and then there is evidence. I don't think we're actually in disagreement here; the three of us. I will call these events delusional insofar as I can conclude that the probability of the existence of evil spirits, and spirits taking control of a human body, are very,very,very,very low. My answer is simply based on our current standard model of logic and physics. Having said that, no, I can't rationally rule it out a 100 percent--so no worries Yohan, our minds are all open.

faith enough michael

i am now upset at science for failing to deliver all the answers

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot I'm just saying, if you want me to believe, show me a repeatable experiment performed under controlled conditions that exhibits the phenomenon in question. If you can do that, then I'll gladly believe you. Youtube videos do not constitute proof, and the circumstantial evidence they provide is, in my opinion, extremely weak and unconvincing. Forgive me for being a skeptic. Maybe you find them more convincing.

that's the whole point of phenomenons and supernatural events. it is not produceable at snap of finger

well, i suppose you can get a bunch of imams and priests and 'demon possessed' people and stick them in a lab, but exactly what will that prove? (or disprove)

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Also, I don't necessarily think that acting is happening. Maybe those people really think they are being exorcised. Same as the acid in the bottle. Maybe the priest really thinks he's exorcising them. Doesn't mean it's really happening. Human brains are weird.

ah yes. exploring the unknown. adventures of science!

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Yohan is it because it makes no logical sense, or because you just dont understand it?

Well, do pink unicorns make sense? Maybe. I think people should be less inclusive in what they're willing to believe sometimes. Even defining belief is hard. But what science tells us is that if we have a model of the world and something comes around that is inconsistent with that model, then either it is false, or the model needs to be redefined. If the latter is true, we need to update our laws of physics to take ghosts and spirits into account (what kind of forces do they exert on the atoms and molecules in the brains of a human that is possessed? What forces cause these effects to vanish? etc.) We constantly do this; for example, some older models of quantum mechanics have been disproven experimentally in favour of quantum field theory. But to rewrite so much of physics to allow room for ghosts and spirits and exorcisms... this seems like an unlikely explanation.

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they should all be hired by Hollywood eh? without any props and in front of lot of witnesses to pull off very convincing act... well, make at least a reality show out of it

I bet they could do this and I bet it would sell. I'm pretty sure they already have.

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quote:

Originally posted by Yohan that's the whole point of phenomenons and supernatural events. it is not produceable at snap of finger well, i suppose you can get a bunch of imams and priests and 'demon possessed' people and stick them in a lab, but exactly what will that prove? (or disprove) ah yes. exploring the unknown. adventures of science!

Well, you're basically telling me that there is no way to scientifically justify a belief that these types of events are real. In other words, we can only "believe" them based on anecdotal evidence, which is often going to be wrong (whether or not the people performing the exorcism think it is real). To me, this does not constitute "belief". It is "faith", which means believing something without evidence. And this is precisely what I am so against. See scientific skepticism.

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