quote:

Originally posted by Dan1584 In terms of popularity, which this Poll is based off of I just find it rather odd that PvD made it above AvB because PvD hasn't made any noise this year what-so-ever. Armin has created a lot of attention with ASOT and his 2 mix comps he's put out this year. That beind said, I congradulate PvD for remaining 2nd most popular in spite of how well marketed other DJ's on the list were this year. I guess that goes to say something about PvD and his fan base. But PvD isn't my cup of tea (except for his "PoD" Cd), but I still respect him and his career.

Armin started his downturn in June 2004. I judge DJs by their performances + tracklists not radio shows.

AvB Ibiza set had its moments but it lacked that 'OMG this is awesome' feel. I agree with other people that his sets started to lose energy post June 2004.

PVD started to improve his sets slowly from June 2004. Each set showcased a different 'PVD style'. He would move around so quickly within genres yet still maintain a PVD feel. In retrospect, I can finally can understand the vast taste PVD's has for differnt kinds of EDM through his sets dating from May 2004 to present. Just when I was losing my faith in him he recovers. I wish I could say the same for AvB.


If you asked me in June 1st 2004 whos better PVD or AvB I would say Avb by a slim margin.

If you ask me now October 28th 2004 whos better PVD or AvB I would say PVD by a large margin.


I reccomend you listen to PVD sets from June to present and look at his tracklists.

Now compare that to

AvB sets and tracklists from the same date.


This may change your mind

___________________
http://www.musicv2.com/artist/davepiazza

Last edited by Dave Piazza on Oct-29-2004 at 04:06

quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 In my opinion Armin has verry good beatmatching skills, and it seems like he phase matches well. But thats the same as just about every other semi good dj that i have ever heard. A&b B&J JG...In my opinion just being able to beatmatch is not good enough. Ive heard tons of live sets. I Boundaries of Imagination is a fuckin great cd. But its not really the mixing that has my attention there, its the tracklisting. Being great live, doesnt mean jumping all over the place is a bonus. I understand that he loves the music and loves the fans. But today he does not have anything that seperates him from the hundreds of other djs that has his style. All the people that go look for tracks he just put out on armind. In my opinion not to many of thoes tracks have a special touch like wow. Armin used to play stuff like circia forever, affinity, solarcoaster. Thoes are special tracks. Stuff like jump the next train is bleh, compaired to them. Armin's mixing also for sum reason just lacks "energy and power." In a lot of cases it seems dull. Instead of going from 1 track, then using mixing, and effects to lead, and build, or lower the enegy to the next track, he doesnt. It seems mellow and just boring. Just another 1:1000000000000 beatmating jobs. It may flow, but its just un eventful. Ive never said holy shit how did he do that 1. Tiesto's mixing is awkward to. Maby because its a bit rushed. But he seems to do a solid job of bringing a huge amount of energy to his next track. For example listen to energy 99. His matching actually blows, but the energy is unreal, and it makes it work.

I completely agree. I was really struggling to find the right way to describe it all, but you wrote exactly what I was thinking. Wise words.

quote:

lol you definately misunderstood what markus said.

I didn't.

Markus discussed how negative this place has gotten. He is right, it has become a place where when people post things like "I like [dj x]" there's bound to be a handful of people waiting to tear apart that persons opinion by telling that [dj x] sucks for [y] amount of reasons.

Did I EVER say I didn't agree with how you described Armin as a DJ? Well actually I did say "lets agree to disagree" but I was referencing that to the PvD vs AvB arguement. I do agree mostly to what you said about AvB.

He still plays great tracks, but the fact is that it's NOT 1999-2002 it's 2004+ and trance music is changing. Armin is still picking tracks that fits his style of melodic standout trance, but the fact that the quality of the music isn't to the standards set years ago is Armin's fault??? Blame the producers. Armin IMO plays the best trance out there...he has introduced me to some great tracks this year that I love. He can't help that the type and selection of trance that's coming out today isn't as great as it was years ago, but he grabs what he feels is special, if you don't like the trance that's coming out today, oh well.

Notice how AvB's radio show is "A State Of Trance" well it kinda represents THE state of trance now-a-days. He has always represented trance music, and very well might I add...yeah his sets don't include the epic building like Tiesto used to do back in the day, but he plays trance that entertains not only him but the fans.

Like I sai there are different types of DJ's...there are DJ's who focus on set structure/building and those who focus on entertaining tracks and making sure the mixing stays reputable. Armin does just that, he entertains with his tracks and has good mixing skills to add to that. Nothing AMAZING or BREAKTHROUGH, just trance and mixing skills. Yeah plenty of people can do that and are doing that today, but he was doing it WAY BEFORE them. Maybe there are too many people copying his style rather than saying Armin is following trends.

This conversation is tiring and pointless like I already said. I've made my point. Armin is an example of massively entertaining but not massively inspiring. James Zabiela is massively inspiring but not entertaining on a massive level. Why is that? It's the type of music and the type of audience that makes up the EDM scene now. Armin can connect to his audience with his track selection while James connects to those who enjoy's his style but primarily because he can mix amazingly well with extraordinary talent.

I'm not sure if I explained that last paragraph perfectly, but it's late and I'm barely awake at this point.



oh and btw:

quote:

Would Brooke Burke be your #1 entertainer dj if she striped on tables infront of you?

You know that's not what I meant...

___________________
Infected Mushroom

"Dancing With Kadafi"
"Symphonatic"

'Nuff Said...

quote:

Originally posted by Dan1584 He still plays great tracks, but the fact is that it's NOT 1999-2002 it's 2004+ and trance music is changing. Armin is still picking tracks that fits his style of melodic standout trance, but the fact that the quality of the music isn't to the standards set years ago is Armin's fault??? Blame the producers.

the quality of music isnt to standards set years ago. so why doesnt this magnificent armin set a new standard? instead he pushes out the same trance as the rest of the producers, who seem to be the source of blame for armin's lack of energy in his sets. would you agree he is to blame as well for letting crappy releases as well as his own productions slip to today's standards of trance instead of being a massive leader and bring trance back to what it used to be. this part of your argument is very weak. maybe he likes the direction trance is going which is why the quality is shit these days. if he cant see the problem with trance these days, then he cannot fix it. instead he has his very popular radio show, where he can direct people what to buy, ie tune of the week, future favorite (thanks to torontotrance for pointing that out) even if the that track sucks. why because people worship him like he is god so whatever he says is tune of the week, then OMFG I HAVE TO HAVE IT. yea

quote:

would you agree he is to blame as well for letting crappy releases as well as his own productions slip to today's standards of trance instead of being a massive leader and bring trance back to what it used to be.

Um AvB only released Intruder/Pound this year which was a collaboration with M.I.K.E. ...how can you say anything about Armins new SOLO productions when he hasn't released any this year? I do agree that he WOULD be to blame as well but read my next comment below...

quote:

maybe he likes the direction trance is going which is why the quality is shit these days. if he cant see the problem with trance these days, then he cannot fix it.

Whoever said there is a problem with trance anyways? Yeah trance has changed but for the worst? If McDonalds changed there meat and old customers didn't like it but new ones did and the sales didn't change does that mean that the meat is any worse? Not liking trance that's produced today is an individual problem based on personal preference. OBVIOUSLY Armin enjoys trance music today and so do I. I enjoy the old days and the new, nothing wrong with trance IMO.

quote:

instead he has his very popular radio show, where he can direct people what to buy, ie tune of the week, future favorite (thanks to torontotrance for pointing that out) even if the that track sucks.

Yes, Armin FORCES people to make purchases. He magically makes it so the masses LOVE the music on his show. Did you know he puts subliminal messages in his show that tells people to "buy the music you hear now" ???

Like I said, old customers vs new customers. The product has changed over the year and it's not due to any one person which way music production has gone whether you enjoy it or not. People will gravitate to what they like to listen to, most people with a decent IQ don't spend money on music based on the fact that b/c it's on a popular radio show "it must be good" ... they buy music b/c they like it.

Good Night, time for sleep.

___________________
Infected Mushroom

"Dancing With Kadafi"
"Symphonatic"

'Nuff Said...

quote:

Originally posted by Dan1584 whoever said there is a problem with trance anyways? Yeah trance has changed but for the worst? If McDonalds changed there meat and old customers didn't like it but new ones did and the sales didn't change does that mean that the meat is any worse? Not liking trance that's produced today is an individual problem based on personal preference. OBVIOUSLY Armin enjoys trance music today and so do I. I enjoy the old days and the new, nothing wrong with trance IMO. Yes, Armin FORCES people to make purchases. He magically makes it so the masses LOVE the music on his show. Did you know he puts subliminal messages in his show that tells people to "buy the music you hear now" ???

ill look forward to your answer tomorrow =). anyways

i guess people having problems with trance is just a matter of opinion. still some releases stand out to me these days, but not as many as before. dont take me for a prog elitist attitude. i like some trance nowadays, just not as much as before.

note, i dindt say he forces people to buy it. he directs them to buy it. basically he can control what tunes are really popular by tune of the week and future favorite selections. that is what i was saying. and you got it right with the subliminal messages. if you dont think tune of the week isnt telling people to purchase it when it comes out, then i guess it means download it as soon as a leak goes through and its all over the mp3 scene. just my guess as to your thought though (sarcasm)

quote:

Originally posted by Dan1584 I didn't. Markus discussed how negative this place has gotten. He is right, it has become a place where when people post things like "I like [dj x]" there's bound to be a handful of people waiting to tear apart that persons opinion by telling that [dj x] sucks for [y] amount of reasons. Did I EVER say I didn't agree with how you described Armin as a DJ? Well actually I did say "lets agree to disagree" but I was referencing that to the PvD vs AvB arguement. I do agree mostly to what you said about AvB. He still plays great tracks, but the fact is that it's NOT 1999-2002 it's 2004+ and trance music is changing. Armin is still picking tracks that fits his style of melodic standout trance, but the fact that the quality of the music isn't to the standards set years ago is Armin's fault??? Blame the producers. Armin IMO plays the best trance out there...he has introduced me to some great tracks this year that I love. He can't help that the type and selection of trance that's coming out today isn't as great as it was years ago, but he grabs what he feels is special, if you don't like the trance that's coming out today, oh well. Notice how AvB's radio show is "A State Of Trance" well it kinda represents THE state of trance now-a-days. He has always represented trance music, and very well might I add...yeah his sets don't include the epic building like Tiesto used to do back in the day, but he plays trance that entertains not only him but the fans. Like I sai there are different types of DJ's...there are DJ's who focus on set structure/building and those who focus on entertaining tracks and making sure the mixing stays reputable. Armin does just that, he entertains with his tracks and has good mixing skills to add to that. Nothing AMAZING or BREAKTHROUGH, just trance and mixing skills. Yeah plenty of people can do that and are doing that today, but he was doing it WAY BEFORE them. Maybe there are too many people copying his style rather than saying Armin is following trends. This conversation is tiring and pointless like I already said. I've made my point. Armin is an example of massively entertaining but not massively inspiring. James Zabiela is massively inspiring but not entertaining on a massive level. Why is that? It's the type of music and the type of audience that makes up the EDM scene now. Armin can connect to his audience with his track selection while James connects to those who enjoy's his style but primarily because he can mix amazingly well with extraordinary talent. I'm not sure if I explained that last paragraph perfectly, but it's late and I'm barely awake at this point. oh and btw: You know that's not what I meant...

1.
Markus' CLEARLY STATED that it is ok do dislike something. Did he not?




#2
Armin is a trance producer, so i will blame him. Djs should NOT pick tracks because they fit their style. They should play tracks that they like. The style shouldnt choose the tracks, the tracks should choose the stlye. What your opinion is, is that Armin place the best melodic trance out there, because that is what you say he plays. Melodic trance like you said WAS 1999-2002 part of 2003. Its over with in 2004, its time to find something new. Armin can HELP his selection by selecting tracks he enjoys, and not just melodic trancers that he signs and releases. It seems that Armin grabs everything, and not just what he feels special. I dont think i know many melodic trancers that armin has not played.

#3
"Melodic trance" as you said...not trance.... But all asot does is play every Melodic trance track out there. Melodic trance is beat & can get boring. Paul tiesto sasha and digweed have relized this. how do tracks actually entertain someone? its not about entertaining its about feeling and danceing.

#4
What is an entertaining track? Since armin is nothing AMAZING or BREAKTHROUGH why should he be top 20? I always thought the winners has special qualitys, that made them different from others. I mean look In sports. Its like saying Jeter is #1 since he hit 298 23 home runs 78 rbis. But he may be the best "entertainer" in baseball.

o yea, so was armin the first dj to play melodic trance?

#5
Isn't a DJ supposed to be inspiring. If you couldnt look up and see armin, could you tell a set of his was actually his?? I always thought people liked zabiela because he was entertaining since his mixing skill was at suck a great level?

If armin played breaks on ASOT, do you think that would become a new trend, then what would u think of zabiela?

quote:

You know that's not what I meant...

then what did u mean?

fuck if BB started striping on tables id vote her #1

___________________
Time exists so everything doesn't happen at once. Space exists so everything doesn't happen to you

quote:

Originally posted by Dan1584 Whoever said there is a problem with trance anyways? Yeah trance has changed but for the worst? If McDonalds changed there meat and old customers didn't like it but new ones did and the sales didn't change does that mean that the meat is any worse? Not liking trance that's produced today is an individual problem based on personal preference. OBVIOUSLY Armin enjoys trance music today and so do I. I enjoy the old days and the new, nothing wrong with trance IMO. Like I said, old customers vs new customers. The product has changed over the year and it's not due to any one person which way music production has gone whether you enjoy it or not. People will gravitate to what they like to listen to, most people with a decent IQ don't spend money on music based on the fact that b/c it's on a popular radio show "it must be good" ... they buy music b/c they like it.

It took 1 billion served to get real chicken @ mcdonalds.

How has the product changed over years?

YOU CLEARLY STATED THAT ARMIN PLAYS MELODIC MUSIC BECAUSE IT FITS HIS STYLE. Not because he likes it

If armin changed his style, ASOT fans would surely change their style. Same with GDJB fans.

___________________
Time exists so everything doesn't happen at once. Space exists so everything doesn't happen to you

quote:

Originally posted by goonerjack 62 – M.I.K.E (PUSH) 52 – John OO Flemming

those guys got robbed!!!

___________________
Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

sorry but armin is gonna be no. 1

quote:

Originally posted by Mugenlude99 sorry but armin is gonna be no. 1

lol

quote:

Originally posted by sandstorm03 OK, In my opinion Armin has verry good beatmatching skills, and it seems like he phase matches well. But thats the same as just about every other semi good dj that i have ever heard. A&b B&J JG...In my opinion just being able to beatmatch is not good enough. Ive heard tons of live sets. I Boundaries of Imagination is a fuckin great cd. But its not really the mixing that has my attention there, its the tracklisting. Being great live, doesnt mean jumping all over the place is a bonus. I understand that he loves the music and loves the fans. But today he does not have anything that seperates him from the hundreds of other djs that has his style. All the people that go look for tracks he just put out on armind. In my opinion not to many of thoes tracks have a special touch like wow. Armin used to play stuff like circia forever, affinity, solarcoaster. Thoes are special tracks. Stuff like jump the next train is bleh, compaired to them. Armin's mixing also for sum reason just lacks "energy and power." In a lot of cases it seems dull. Instead of going from 1 track, then using mixing, and effects to lead, and build, or lower the enegy to the next track, he doesnt. It seems mellow and just boring. Just another 1:1000000000000 beatmating jobs. It may flow, but its just un eventful. Ive never said holy shit how did he do that 1. Tiesto's mixing is awkward to. Maby because its a bit rushed. But he seems to do a solid job of bringing a huge amount of energy to his next track. For example listen to energy 99. His matching actually blows, but the energy is unreal, and it makes it work.

I agree with that absolutely 100% word for word by the way, I thank you for taking the time to explain it ...it's what i've always thought but never really found the right words to say it

/edit - and i wrote that without seeing cobalt's reply too