quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Israel initiated a blockade in response to Hamas's takeover of the Gaza Strip.

Keep saying that to yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Some 'moral clarity' for those that can't shake the Palestinian propaganda machine... >>Source<<

"Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Hamas, which started this conflict with unrelenting rocket and mortar attacks on unarmed Israelis -- 6,464 launched from Gaza in the last three years -- deliberately places its weapons in and near the homes of its own people."

LOLLLLLLLL

Apparently, they failed to contact the 600 people who've already been killed, nevermind that they hardly have ELECTRICITY or PHONE SERVICE......Hamas can only fight Israel through assymetrical warfare. You idiots expect them to fight on the open field of battle?! LOL. I love it how you Zionist propaganda constantly reiterates Hamas's supposed doctrinal use of civilian shields and that is the cause of all these civilian deaths. And you people eat it right up. The fact is...there is no separating civilians from a battlefield and mere thought that that is even possible is completely stupefying on so many levels.

___________________

Last edited by Krypton on Jan-07-2009 at 06:51

quote:

Originally posted by IlanG Keep saying that to yourself.

It's fucking news you idiot...

quote:

Hamas seized control of Gaza in June in a brief war, routing the rival Western-backed forces of Fatah. After the takeover, Israel sealed its border crossings with Gaza, on the grounds that the Fatah forces had fled and were no longer providing security on the other side. Israel, like the United States and the European Union, lists Hamas as a terrorist group and will not deal with it. Israel also decided to press Hamas by admitting to Gaza only the minimum amount of goods required to avert a hunger or health crisis among its 1.5 million people, and prohibiting most exports. Israel contends that its approach is working. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/14/w...deast.html?_r=1

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton "Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Hamas, which started this conflict with unrelenting rocket and mortar attacks on unarmed Israelis -- 6,464 launched from Gaza in the last three years -- deliberately places its weapons in and near the homes of its own people." LOLLLLLLLL Apparently, they failed to contact the 600 people who've already been killed, nevermind that they hardly have ELECTRICITY or PHONE SERVICE......Hamas can only fight Israel through assymetrical warfare. You idiots expect them to fight on the open field of battle?! LOL. I love it how you Zionist propaganda constantly reiterates Hamas's supposed doctrinal use of civilian shields and that is the cause of all these civilian deaths. And you people eat it right up. The fact is...there is no separating civilians from a battlefield and mere thought that that is even possible is completely stupefying on so many levels.

bud I don't want to argue but the 600 people killed did happen to have another label than just 'people'. to be involved in terrorist activities is well worthy enough of a cause to be targeted. not saying all of those numbers are terrorists, i'm damn sure innocents got in the way, but why would the military just go and kill civilians? don't you think that would set them back and get them in deeper shit than what they already are in?

___________________
http://french-express.com
http://discodust.blogspot.com

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Apparently, they failed to contact the 600 people who've already been killed, nevermind that they hardly have ELECTRICITY or PHONE SERVICE.....

Most of those dead are militants. Hamas killed hundreds of people in Gaza last year when it was fighting with Fatah. Where were you then?
Hezbollah killed hundreds of Arab Sunnis in the past couple of years. Why havent you been more vocal about that? Innocent Arab women all over the Middle East die each year at the hands of religious judges yet I havent heard you mention that at all.

Do you have a problem with what the US did in Afghanistan? Speak up now. America had to retaliate against the Taliban. But dont think for one second there werent thousands (a lot more then those died on 9/11) of so-called innocent bystanders in Afghanistan who got caught in the crossfire and died.
That's the reality of war. Do you think American forces werent aggressive in their fight against the Taliban?

Now let's get back to Hamas
*Hamas has been cutting off some of the electricity and phone service in Gaza.

*Hamas has been forcing some Gaza residents to remain in their homes rather then let them try to flee to safer havens

*Hamas is the one hiding in so-called safe havens, UN-owned buildings, and firing from them

*Hamas is the one taking over parts of the hospitals in Gaza, only treating the people it wants to treat

*Hamas is the one confiscating the international aid allowed into Gaza that was supposed to be handed out freely Gaza's citizens

*Hamas is the one that hasnt allowed some of those injured to cross the border in Egypt

*Hamas is the one with a charter that aims to annihilate Israel


There are Palestinians who have been wounded in Gaza that Israel is actually treating back in Israel. Dont believe me? Ask New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, who was in Israel this week. He met up both with Israelis wounded and Palestinian ones. There's photos too if you still dont believe it.

Hamas needs to surrender and let other Arab leaders who actually give a shit about Gaza do the talking.

CHRles: Chapeau!
Good to see some facts for a change.

___________________
"Those are my principles, if you don't like them... well, I have others.”

definitely

and as for krypton, this is my first time in the political forum, and first time seeing you here too mind you. to be honest, I lost much respect for you. it may fly in the c0r, but over here you seem to spew incoherent blobs of emotionally attached information, everything seeming to come out one-sided. are you a sympathizer of some sort, or are you just simply uninformed?

___________________
http://french-express.com
http://discodust.blogspot.com

quote:

Originally posted by Leon bud I don't want to argue but the 600 people killed did happen to have another label than just 'people'. to be involved in terrorist activities is well worthy enough of a cause to be targeted. not saying all of those numbers are terrorists, i'm damn sure innocents got in the way, but why would the military just go and kill civilians? don't you think that would set them back and get them in deeper shit than what they already are in?

According to most sources, about 200 civilians killed. Never mind the the THOUSANDS who are wounded. I'm sure they're all Hamas too. It's not that the military just goes in to kill civilians. Oh, forgot...the IDF have engaged two UN facilities, I believe they were schools. Never mind that too. My friend, Israel is already in deep shit. The overwhelming majority of world opinion is completely against the operation.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles Most of those dead are militants. Hamas killed hundreds of people in Gaza last year when it was fighting with Fatah. Where were you then? Hezbollah killed hundreds of Arab Sunnis in the past couple of years. Why havent you been more vocal about that? Innocent Arab women all over the Middle East die each year at the hands of religious judges yet I havent heard you mention that at all.

Most of the WOUNDED are civilians. Now you want to bring up the civil war between Hamas and Fatah factions huh? WTF do you want me to say? It's a bloody civil war. Most countries go through them you know, even the United States and now you bring up some other completely irrelevant issue of women's rights in the Middle East. Can we PLEASE stay on topic?...

quote:

Do you have a problem with what the US did in Afghanistan? Speak up now. America had to retaliate against the Taliban. But dont think for one second there werent thousands (a lot more then those died on 9/11) of so-called innocent bystanders in Afghanistan who got caught in the crossfire and died. That's the reality of war. Do you think American forces werent aggressive in their fight against the Taliban?

More irrelevant arguments. Can we stay on topic?

quote:

Now let's get back to Hamas

FINALLY...

quote:

*Hamas has been cutting off some of the electricity and phone service in Gaza. *Hamas has been forcing some Gaza residents to remain in their homes rather then let them try to flee to safer havens *Hamas is the one hiding in so-called safe havens, UN-owned buildings, and firing from them *Hamas is the one taking over parts of the hospitals in Gaza, only treating the people it wants to treat *Hamas is the one confiscating the international aid allowed into Gaza that was supposed to be handed out freely Gaza's citizens *Hamas is the one that hasnt allowed some of those injured to cross the border in Egypt *Hamas is the one with a charter that aims to annihilate Israel

Not doubting these claims...yet. Please post the source.

quote:

There are Palestinians who have been wounded in Gaza that Israel is actually treating back in Israel. Dont believe me? Ask New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, who was in Israel this week. He met up both with Israelis wounded and Palestinian ones. There's photos too if you still dont believe it.

Ohhh, so that justifies it in some weird demented way, huh?

quote:

Hamas needs to surrender and let other Arab leaders who actually give a shit about Gaza do the talking.

LOL @ Arab leaders. You mean the dictators which are supported by the US and Israel? Mubarak? King Saud? Who? LOL...Who do you think actually cares? Iran seems to be the only one who actually gives a damn enough to send support.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Leon and as for krypton, this is my first time in the political forum, and first time seeing you here too mind you. to be honest, I lost much respect for you. it may fly in the c0r, but over here you seem to spew incoherent blobs of emotionally attached information, everything seeming to come out one-sided. are you a sympathizer of some sort, or are you just simply uninformed?

I'm not here to garner your respect. Just here to discuss my point of view. I make many valid points in my opinion, and you are more than welcome to address my points with any counter points you may have. I read them very carefully and in their entirety. My posts are not "incoherent blobs" and if that's what you perceive, then that's unfortunate. You know my position. I make it clear concise and to the point.

If my arguments seems "incoherent" to you, maybe I should clearly state my philosophical position. I sympathize with all those people who are oppressed by foreign occupation. It's that simple. That includes Iraqis, Chechens, Tamils, Afghans, Palestinians...

___________________

First of all there are sources to what I've written about Hamas in this very thread. I know, I know there's already like 20 something pages, but I was mainly recapping what others have already posted.

Second of all, those Arab dictators are a lot less dangerous not only to America and Israel, but to the people of the Middle East as well when compared to Iran.
What support is Iran planning to send? Suicide bombers? More weapons so Hamas can continue firing rockets as it has for the past 8 years?
Saudi Arabia and Egypt are offering real medical support, real food, and other forms of aid.
Iran is all talk about "helping the Palestinian cause" when it's not even their business - Iranians arent even Arabs. Iran needs to let the Arab world try to handle this crisis. But no, Iran is being overly vocal b/c Hamas is a proxy of Iran.

Lastly, what I'd posted with regards to Hamas vs. Fatah, Hezbollah, and America's just war on Afghanistan is all very relevant. You've got to put all the pieces of the puzzle together to get the big picture. You can show sympathy for the Palestinian cause if you want, and I think that's fair, but showing sympathy for Hamas is a whole other matter.