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| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
There was never any theory. Humans have always known there is a creator. Recently [as in, last 3-4 thousand years] the idea that there is no creator has been perpetuated and in some places it is the majority view.
Not everyone will realize it obviously. Especially when you have people out there who purposefully do things that prevents others from realizing it. |
Well I too agree with you that there is a creator, and I strongly believe so. If it wasn't, I wouldn't want to live. But what I'm saying is that you cannot prove it with your logic/science, nor can you prove that there isn't any creator with logic/science. You can say that nothing can bring itself into existence, because before it eventually did, it didn't exist. But then some other intelligence must have brought it into excistence; eg. "the creator." But then another question arises, who brought the creator into existence? Or is he infinite in time and infinite in space? If so, why cannot our universe be just that aswell? Does the creator follow any other logical rules than we do? Does he exist outside time and space*? If so, how can you prove that, with your logic?
*(then I mean a space, not spesifically our space, if it is so that we live in our own space and he lives in his).
See? It can go on and on with our logic, hence we can not prove it with that. If you say you can prove with logic that our universe is not infinite in time backwards, then you must also be able to prove with your logic that the creator is not infinite in time backwards. Because the universe encompasses everything, including the creator. So if the creator had a start, something must have created the creator. But then again, this creator of the creator can not have existed forever, according to your logic, so it must have been created by another creator. But, indeed, this creator.. hello? it cannot have existed forever, at least not according to our logic, so something... call it a creator, must have created this creator.. And on it goes. And guess what? There you have it - infinity.
I wanna tell you a little story about an experience I had many years ago, but first, let me speak a little bit about the universe.
When you reach the end of space, you can probably touch it as it's some black wall. But then you ask yourself, whats beyond this black wall? There has to be something, cause if there's nothing, nothing is also something. See? Infinity. It was no end, it was just a black wall. But the thing is, when you reach this point, you don't reach any black wall, you've actually been going around in a circle, and you've ended up right where you started. (One could claim that to think you reach a black wall when you come to this place is just as dumb as thinking the earth is flat and you'll reach the end of the world if you keep sailing across the ocean.) Well that might be so, but thats another hypothesis, and definately not logical according to our brain, cause we did go straight forward, we know that, we can even look behind us and see the straight line back to where we started. To end up at that same place again while keep going away from it is just not logical. BUT, right there you have the evidence of that there is more dimensions than 3. You need to be outside this dimension to see that it's actually not a straight line. Imagine a being living in a 2 dimensional world. He can only move to the left, or to the right. Thats all he can do, and he's pretty satisfied with that because its the only movement he knows of, and the only dimensions he sees. He cannot see upwards or downwards, because he don't know of those directions, that axis, he lives in a 2 dimensional world. But we can see that his missing the oppertunity to look upwards or downwards, because we live in a 3 dimensional world, outside his dimension. So lets try to trick this being. We put his world in a loop, a circle. Just like the tire on a car. As he walks inside this tire, up on the rim, all around the wheel, suddenly he finds himself in the same position as he started. WTF!? he says.. Whatta hells going on??? Like I was here just a minute ago, and I've been walking a straight line forward and now Im here again!!!!!!! Whatta FUCK mann!!! My world collapses, I'm gonna cry.. Well, ofcourse the poor guy cannot see that he's been going around in a circle, because he lives in a 2 dimensional world, he's been walking a straight line. But then you say.. wait a minute, ofcourse he sees this.. If he looks behind him, he cannot see the straight line back to where he started, cause he's been going around the rim! He'll see the horizon of the rim!.. Oh but yes he can see the straight line. Remember, we're the one who sees the circle, If he couldn't have seen the straight line, and saw the horizon of the rim instead, he wouldn't have been living in a two dimensional world.
This guy now draws the conclution that the universe is finite, since he's come back to his startingpoint. But we who live outside his dimension, outside the tire, see that indeed there is something beyond the tire. There's the car and the world outside. See where I'm going now?
Now back to the short story I was about to tell, and it might be a bit deeper than it seem. The first time I thought of the concept of infinity, that space could actually be infinite (Cause afterall, the stupid fowl brain in the tire don't know nothing right), guess what happened? This was in infant school when I was 7 years of age. I passed out on the desk! CRASH! and stars were all over my head!
Hows that for a sudden epifany!?
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I asked my granma.. "What does god look like.., the wind?" I could immediately tell from the look on her face i asked a 'bad' question. One that made her uncomfortable. She kind of chuckled like it was a silly question, and couldn't really answer. She just said he's everywhere. I knew right then and there I wasn't a believer.
