quote:

Originally posted by TheVrk Don't they call that politics? Every country in history has changed political views many, MANY times for their personal interest. Fuck even political parties see-saw their policies/views for their own interest or just to get votes. Also, we have to take into account that political leaders change quite often, and the agendas of the country or party they rule do in turn.

The people who ruled Croatia during WWII are nothing like the avg Croatians or a representation of Croatians as a whole.
They were merely extremists who were at the right place at the right time for their movement to be realized

quote:

Originally posted by TheVrk This applies to EVERY country (and party for that matter), ESPECIALLY the countries at the centre of this political conflict like the U.S., Russia, China, the UK, France, Italy etc etc...

US : a bit different from Clinton to Bush ya think?
Russia : communists like Lenin and Stalin still turning in the graves because of Gorbachev
China : Mao?
France : they GUILLOTINED their royal family!
Italy : um....WWII anyone?
Germany : ya so, Hitler is NOT what the majority of Germans support nowadays
Japan : also a slight change from pre to post WWII heh

These are only examples in the last century or less, let alone through their entire history
Countries generally do whats in their BEST economical and political interest.
If they can benefit financially in the long term, EVERYONE can and will change their views/stance

quote:

Originally posted by TheVrk This is the case EVERYWHERE in the world (see the Muslims), the problem is, these fucked up-idiot-psycho-maniacs are the ones that everyone sees on the news.

well put

___________________
"we're here for a good time...not a long time..."

quote:

Originally posted by TheVrk To be fair he never said everyone was a savage, but that all sides had their "fair share" of savages.

reading comprehension works!

quote:

Originally posted by TheVrk US : a bit different from Clinton to Bush ya think? Russia : communists like Lenin and Stalin still turning in the graves because of Gorbachev China : Mao? France : they GUILLOTINED their royal family! Italy : um....WWII anyone? Germany : ya so, Hitler is NOT what the majority of Germans support nowadays Japan : also a slight change from pre to post WWII heh These are only examples in the last century or less, let alone through their entire history Countries generally do whats in their BEST economical and political interest. If they can benefit financially in the long term, EVERYONE can and will change their views/stance

That really misses the point. Obviously stances change. But denying your past, or even worse, using the past atrocities of others while denying your own just doesn't prove a point, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by love_child gloop si ko tursky kooratz

Keep the Turks out of this you shitforbrains (no pun intended)

Honestly, this is all soo bullshit but we can't avoid it either. I don't judge anyone because of their beliefs or religion or anything. I judge a person for who they are. I wish we could all do this.

I'm Turkish and I have many Greek friends, who are actually very nice and I played soccer with the guys. They are just like any of my other friends.

But it pisses me off when people start judging a country/religion/ethnicity based on one group of bad people... You can step on shit anywhere in the world, get used to it...

___________________
www.ozmozisevents.com
Facebook Fanpage

Last edited by Ozmozis on Feb-22-2008 at 15:38

quote:

Originally posted by zokissima That really misses the point. Obviously stances change. But denying your past, or even worse, using the past atrocities of others while denying your own just doesn't prove a point, IMO.

I highly doubt TheVrk was involved in the atrocities himself so why do you think he should answer for his predecessors? Like you shouldn't have to answer for your predecessors.

That's why he says, us young people should be above all this.

Change the world, don't live in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess Change the world, don't live in the past.

The past happened as it happened. History focuses on the extraordinary the often bizarre events which disturb normality. Thus, we shouldn't dwell in the past and start new problems but should move on and create new friendships. If only everyone felt this way, but that's not the case so we will always have problems...

___________________
www.ozmozisevents.com
Facebook Fanpage

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess I highly doubt TheVrk was involved in the atrocities himself so why do you think he should answer for his predecessors? Like you shouldn't have to answer for your predecessors. That's why he says, us young people should be above all this. Change the world, don't live in the past.

What? Did you even read the last few pages at all, or just jumped in on the last comment? Where exactly did I say he was involved in the atrocities of the past?

The whole direction of the conversation started when Anita brought up the past, thus I retorted, and at that point Ivan stated his opinions based on what I said. My point was all along to not bring up the past into this thread as it does no good and there are none who have their hands clean as far as that is concerned. Reading comprehension indeed. Anyways, it should be crystal clear that this thread is really going nowhere.

EDIT:
Ivan, thanks for your opinions. Trust me, we see eye to eye in many of these topics, in the sense that we are both willing to let go of certain things in the past for the sake of a better future. However, this situation that is unfolding now is hardly a matter of the past, and contention for it never trully stopped. It has always been there, thus this isn't something new that popped up out of nowhere. The claims of Serbs over this land are legitimate, and have been for a long, long, long time.

Last edited by zokissima on Feb-22-2008 at 17:39

quote:

Originally posted by TheVrk Countries generally do whats in their BEST economical and political interest. If they can benefit financially in the long term, EVERYONE can and will change their views/stance

So we all have to bend over for a fist full of dollars?

___________________
kantina

quote:

Originally posted by miljan So we all have to bend over for a fist full of dollars?

Apparently that's what they call "progress" and "not living in the past"

quote:

Originally posted by zokissima What? Did you even read the last few pages at all, or just jumped in on the last comment? Where exactly did I say he was involved in the atrocities of the past? The whole direction of the conversation started when Anita brought up the past, thus I retorted, and at that point Ivan stated his opinions based on what I said. My point was all along to not bring up the past into this thread as it does no good and there are none who have their hands clean as far as that is concerned. Reading comprehension indeed. Anyways, it should be crystal clear that this thread is really going nowhere. Ivan, thanks for your opinions. Trust me, we see eye to eye in many of these topics.

I would like to know exactly what your emotional involvement is in this whole topic. We know that Tiesto Sux has family there. What is your involvement?

Maybe you should yourself take a step back and be objective.

Reading comprehension. I never said you said he was involved but you were asking him to answer for his country's past. And telling him not to bring up stuff because his people are just as bad. Are you denying that?