quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Dude, seriously? I was eating mcdonalds twice a day for a year in uni and havent gained a kilo. Sure i want feeling all that great but i havent gained weight at all. Keeping up with your daily exercises and saying no to the n-th supersized meal goes a long way. Look at that fat fuck in the pic, half of that hot dog shes holding would fill me up and i am not a small guy, but she has another one waiting for her. Overating like that, she would have gained weight eating salad.

You have a higher metabolism, and probably were able to burn off all the calories relatively easily. I was just like you, and my cholesterol was through the roof after eating fast food for lunch 3-4 times a week. You're naive if you think that meat and cheese isn't the sole reason why people's cholesterol is high, and why most of them are pretty fat.

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Vegetables are not food, vegetables are what Food Eats!

Your point was just rendered completely invalid.

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Originally posted by Enigmatik I really don't get that. Prove that an animal has a wide range of possible emotions, prove that they have a desire to live outside of instinct, prove that they have non-instinctual decision-making capabilities, etc. It's simple. If you had to choose one to be shot in the face, a healthy human baby or a healthy calf, which would you pick? End of story, really.

Really? It doesn't matter if they have a wide range of possible emotions in this instance, I was talking about actively harming another living thing. Killing is harmful as the previously living thing is kind of suddenly dead. Honestly, I don't understand your point in the slightest. I want to limit my participation as much as possible, so it really won't change my mind if it turns out animals can't do all that you mentioned. It's still killing something.

There is not going to be a situation where I have to make that decision so, no, not end of story. That is a completely ridiculous thing to say and adds nothing to the conversation.

Speaking of which, something that frustrates me is that people seem to assume an interest in animal rights cancels out an interest in human rights. It's utter bullshit.

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Originally posted by Enigmatik If you had to choose one to be shot in the face, a healthy human baby or a healthy calf, which would you pick?

The baby. I would find it exceedingly humourous, therefore pleasurable. I experience amusement as both a hereditary and a social transmission, therefore it is the result of evolution. I cannot help that I was designed to be this way; I simply lack a desire to live outside of instinct and do not possess non-instinctual decision-making capabilities, etc.

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

mmmmmmmmmmmm

filet mignon, peppercorn steak, any kind of liver









come to mama

*drools*
I love red meat.
I think I may be a bit of a vampire

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Originally posted by Slylee oh well, different strokes different vaginas

Some dance to remember ~ Some dance to forget

It was just an abstract hypothetical to help me understand your cases a lot more.

(I'm not directing my comment to you alone, fughawzi)

I just think your stance is hypocritical.

Grow your own crops and stop relying on mass production arable farming which kills thousands of animals in harvesters each year.
It's not me who's complaining about the morality of the system.. you claim to want to limit animal death and suffering so do all you can and start growing your own food, until then you're a hypocrite with a value system you don't adhere to.

Bottom line is, if you decide to eschew meat, cool. But don't paint me as a villain because I include it in my diet, and using shaky arguements to convince me your stance makes more sense than mine.

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The only hard feelings should be in your pants

I think the bigger health difficulty is probably people's consumption of chips, fries, cookies, and soft drinks, because those things are all much less filling than meat, and therefore easier to overconsume.

I suspect that a lot of people, if limited to a diet of steak, chicken, fruit, and vegetables (i.e. no flour and no sugary drinks), would lose weight. It's harder for most people to pig out on those every day than to sit down and eat a bunch of flour-made or potato-made snacks, or drink a few cans of soda.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think the bigger health difficulty is probably people's consumption of chips, fries, cookies, and soft drinks, because those things are all much less filling than meat, and therefore easier to overconsume. I suspect that a lot of people, if limited to a diet of steak, chicken, fruit, and vegetables (i.e. no flour and no sugary drinks), would lose weight. It's harder for most people to pig out on those every day than to sit down and eat a bunch of flour-made or potato-made snacks, or drink a few cans of soda.

Agreed. I don't eat/drink any of that junk. It helps that I genuinely dislike the taste of it. Except for cookies. Chocolate chip + macadamia nuts cookies. Yum.

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The only hard feelings should be in your pants

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Originally posted by Enigmatik I really don't get that.

I don't get it either, and I'm a vegetarian myself.

Vegetables are living beings too, but I gleefully eat them every single day. What makes a chicken more special than a broccoli? Aren't both living beings in a sense? Just because chicken are closer to us anatomically (they have a heart, a nervous system, and so on) than carrots, it doesn't excuse us from the fact that we're eating living beings all the same.

If anything, the argument should be for moderation - not for vegetarianism - because do you really think you're so special that you can consume everyday a whole Mongolian town simply because bury your pitiful life under tons of food that could feed a whole family for a decade?

Edit: This being said, I can do everything for a healthy life, except cut soft drinks. I can live without alcohol, but I just have my weekly dose of Coca-cola

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quote:

Originally posted by Enigmatik It was just an abstract hypothetical to help me understand your cases a lot more. (I'm not directing my comment to you alone, fughawzi) I just think your stance is hypocritical. Grow your own crops and stop relying on mass production arable farming which kills thousands of animals in harvesters each year. It's not me who's complaining about the morality of the system.. you claim to want to limit animal death and suffering so do all you can and start growing your own food, until then you're a hypocrite with a value system you don't adhere to. Bottom line is, if you decide to eschew meat, cool. But don't paint me as a villain because I include it in my diet, and using shaky arguements to convince me your stance makes more sense than mine.

I don't care about convincing you of anything. That might not have been solely directed at me, but I started off by saying I was just stating my opinion. People are going to eat meat. I have no interest in any animal products, they are repulsive to me. That's all.

I am not in a position where I could grow my own food, but I get all of my produce from small local farms because I live in Southern California. I can't really consume all those lovely mass production crops. I don't really see how any of this makes me a hypocrite. My "value system" is trying to limit my involvement in the harming of others as much as I reasonably can. I adhere to that and I do not expect perfection. I know I still participate, but the goal is to limit.

Not doing something perfectly does not equal doing nothing at all.

I can accept veganism as a pusillanimous attempt at boycotting factory farming (if chosen for ethical reasons).

(PETA's in my backyard)

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Originally posted by Lira I don't get it either, and I'm a vegetarian myself. Vegetables are living beings too, but I gleefully eat them every single day. What makes a chicken more special than a broccoli? Aren't both living beings in a sense? Just because chicken are closer to us anatomically (they have a heart, a nervous system, and so on) than carrots, it doesn't excuse us from the fact that we're eating living beings all the same.

Damn, I knew I was doing the least amount of harm with the anorexia. You just can't win.

Edit: Oh god, but then I'm attacking my own body. That's a living thing! WHERE DOES THE INSANITY STOP?

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Originally posted by fughawzi Damn, I knew I was doing the least amount of harm with the anorexia. You just can't win.

Or else, you can just come to grips with the fact that, in order to live, we have to unfortunately kill other beings so we can survive. Chickens, carrots, and so on.

It's not really romantic, but such is life. Oh, you can also try to do like those New Age Hindu guys that claim to live off sunlight! They all have nice tans

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