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Originally posted by Orbax go to the library and rent the movie "the search for mount sinai" it follows moses' path into Saudi Arabia. These two guys forged documents and pretended they had the Kings persmission to be there. They found caves, and a place the locals called "Mt Moses" Its crazy. They had to find where "the sea parted" at low tide there isa land bridge to saudi arabia. No one really knows about it it took them a long time in an airplane to find. They found the spring, the 40 springs with palms. They found the burial place, the found the mt. It was fenced off and patrolled by saudi government. It was penalty by death to go. They put on night vision and went there. They found a huge altar that was built. It had Egyptian graffiti scrawled on it (egypt was pursuing them if you recall). They found the split rock. They found enough swords to tell this is where they turned around and fought the armies of egypt. The entire top of the mountain looked like it had been melted. It was granite. (god coming down). they found the spot where he talked to God. They found a small grove of the wood that was used to build the arc of the covenent. they found another altar with 13 pillars. (tribes of israel.) They guys who did it are a little pompous, but it is still amazing. Dont say there isnt any proof.

This is your proof? God, this should be an entertaining watch...ill actually re-word my sentence then. There is no Scientific Proof, not some shoddy home-video that a couple of guys did, and cant back up.

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Originally posted by DaveSZ Short and Sweet: -The government should stay out of the bedroom -Religious fundamentalism the world over is a dangerous and oppressive trend -In a pluralistic society, we should strive to protect the rights of the minority and protect civil liberties as much as possible gays: "Marriage" is a religious institution to be left to various faiths. If a Fundie church doesn't want to perfrom gay weddings that's fine, and if another church does, then fine. For government benefits, gay and straight couples should enter into "civil unions." Whatever it's called, it's the benefits that really matter, and we shouldn’t get bogged down in semantics. abortion: Criminalizing abortion is tantamount to the state forcing a woman to bring a child to term. I'm against abortion after viability except for health reasons however.

Completely agree.

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Originally posted by Rodrico This is your proof? God, this should be an entertaining watch...ill actually re-word my sentence then. There is no Scientific Proof, not some shoddy home-video that a couple of guys did, and cant back up.

I dont think I ever used the word proof. Its evidence. Not all things can be proven, unfortunately. I already said its not the best in the world, but i think these are the only Christians who have gotten into Saudi Arabia and done it.

Its interesting, and shows that there are some real believable evidences surrounding moses.

In no way was it me trying to prove it. It was just saying that there is more than the previously claimed "zero" evidence for moses.

Also, just because the scientific community hasnt put their stamp of approval on something, doesnt mean it cant be there or true.

If you actually watch the video, youll probably realize its more than a home-video, and it, again, shows some pretty darn solid stuff.

Not everything is an attack...

there is a difference between a proof and proof of something btw.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf It's more than just that, it's the cornerstone of society.

If true, that probably says something about our society.


http://www.theelvisweddingchapel.com/index.html

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Originally posted by DaveSZ If true, that probably says something about our society. http://www.theelvisweddingchapel.com/index.html

people cheapen the institution, the institution doesn't cheapen people

___________________
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Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

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Originally posted by Rodrico So...Im skewing my facts into a non-religious point of view, as opposed to skewing my facts into a religious point of view? Im sorry but what view am I suppose to take? ofcourse im non-religious when I talk about science and fact, because science and fact show that the stories in the bible cant be proved. And when you start believing in things that cant be proved, you are essentially a "tool". The bible is not to be taken literally, its a metaphor for daily living. Even then, some of the shit in there is just wrong for nowadays.

I meant anti-religious. My point is you are not unbiasedly trying to prove something, you are trying to prove that the Bible is stories taken from other cultures or something like that. I'll point out where you did this, below:

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No, its not convienent at all, its the truth, take a look at Noah's Ark, now do you believe in that? Because if you do, thats just silly. First its impossible to do what Noah did. Secondly in the region, there were several civilizations that had stories of floods that were simliar to Noah's Ark story, why? because the area has had a history of floods and one particular flood destroyed most of the houses, cities and killed many people.

Yes I do believe in it. Please point out what part of it is impossible, or *silly*. I would perhaps go to the Political forum and read some of the Creation vs. Evolution arguments we've had there - I've had to deal with the likes of occrider and Mr.Opus, two very educated individuals on this subject.

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One story in particular about when one of these big floods came, that a King had built a large boat that supported him, and the royal family, including a large amount of their riches, as well as food to survive the flood itself.

Interesting story. You are taking a story, adding your point of view and objective (which I stated above) and trying to prove through this logic that the Bible took this nearly-unheard of story and plaguerized it. Sorry, I'm not buying it.

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Could be a case of broken telephone, or it could be that Noah exsisted like the bible says, and managed to do something that is ridiculously impossible.

State what was impossible about it. This is a subject of debate that cannot be won by either side - but only because it is unprovable from a scientific standpoint. What I mean by that - we can't observe it (the Ark and such) so it's not provable. You won't bring any Creationist to his knees by spouting off some crazy theories on why the Ark wasn't possible - it's all been said and done before. We can continue and debate this subject, however, if you wish.

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Great, make me work to find you links, that you wont even read or care for. If you want, I can search later tonight when I have time to do this crap, and I am sure I can find you lots of interseting sites.

I'll help you out.
Pro-evolution: http://www.talkorigins.org
Pro-Creation: http://www.trueorigins.org

I've read a lot about the subject. No need to research it. If you wish something answered, however, I can give you a Creationist answer for it.

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My motives? what motives does real fact and science have to do with disproving a bunch of fairy tale stories that cant be proven otherwise? Like I said, its all Mother Goose fairy tales bullshit that is put to give mankind faith and understanding the question "Why?". Not that it makes it wrong at all, I mean, Religion can be very good too, but dont pass it off as fact, when its only fiction.

Interesting *theory* - perhaps you're right. However, and more likely, you don't like the idea of a cosmic Judge and you like it better when you can put yourself on a self-appointed intellectual high-chair and point fingers at the "crazy Bible thumpers" who actually have the deluded notion of believing they were created by an intelligent designer, aka God.

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I despise the fact that religious supporters hide behind the "well you cant disprove it, so it must be true" reasoning. What ever happened to just having faith in God and being a good person, for the sake of being a good person. And not to take a literal word for word of what a bunch of men wrote a millenium and a half ago. Whatever I said here, is either been on TV or read somewhere, and I am merely paraphrasing what I saw and took in, not because I enjoy bashing the validity of the bible, but because I like to know what is real fact, and I love to make a good argument...it just happens to be were talkin bout religion.

Try thinking for yourself and not believing everything you see or hear on TV. Let me know how being a conformer is working out.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf It's more than just that, it's the cornerstone of society.

Question is, what came first, the marriage or the religion?

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Originally posted by Orbax I dont think I ever used the word proof. Its evidence. Not all things can be proven, unfortunately. I already said its not the best in the world, but i think these are the only Christians who have gotten into Saudi Arabia and done it. Its interesting, and shows that there are some real believable evidences surrounding moses. In no way was it me trying to prove it. It was just saying that there is more than the previously claimed "zero" evidence for moses. Also, just because the scientific community hasnt put their stamp of approval on something, doesnt mean it cant be there or true. If you actually watch the video, youll probably realize its more than a home-video, and it, again, shows some pretty darn solid stuff. Not everything is an attack... there is a difference between a proof and proof of something btw.

I guess, I suppose I will watch this video now just because I must see what these guys are talking about.

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Originally posted by Rodrico Question is, what came first, the marriage or the religion?

marriage predates all the existing religions

___________________
Nathan Fake - Outhouse (Valentino Kanzyani Remix) || ID PLZ! PVD ID!!!
Disco and classical had sex while watching a sci-fi movie. Their child: trance.

yeah, I mean, I didnt really care about if Moses had lived or not. I just watched it because I had heard pretty good things.

It makes you realize that when God parted the sea, it was basically just low tide and they were able to cross. Thank God for low tide at that point!

kind of lets you see a bit into what might have been, and shows a little side of Saudi Arabia most people dont get to see.

I thought it was pretty cool, no matter what background youre from

Actually Seventil, I was referring to the silliness of believing Noah's Ark as an actual factual story, because for Noah to respectively put two of every animal in its right region and place after the flood was done is impossible to ever do in one mans lifetime considering there are over billions of lives of species on the planet. To take Noah's Ark as a serious event, is mind boggling, and that it is more than impossible for it to be actual fact. Personally I dont care how educated Opus and Occrider is, if they argue for Noah's Ark as a factual event, I would call them stupid in their faces, cause there is no way it could of happened, it is IMPOSSIBLE for one man to grab two of every species and sub-species of every animal of this world, and then put them in their respective spots, considering his only means of travel was on a boat and by foot or horse. Its IMPOSSIBLE...lets read that again...IMPOSSIBLE.

I am merely stating the obvious coincidences of so many similar stories plaguing the region by many different civilizations, that whether you like to believe it or not, is still a fact that is added onto my theory. Im not gonna convert you if you dont want to listen, likewise what your doing, all Im doing is adding my two cents to further my points and arguments. So whether your buying it or not, heres two cents, do whatever the fuck you want with my charity.

I never said I didnt believe in God, so dont jump to so many assumptions about my faith. I just knocked down your bible, and your idea of what God is.

And lastly, sorry, but dont give me that shit, dont believe what you read or tv, Hi, Seventil just won the Pot to Kettle Award - Guess what, your Black too idiot. He won the award cause he took the bible for literal meaning, and is beyond a tool but a righteous tool. Dont call me a conformer just because I havent gone out there and done the scientific research myself, if thats the case, your just a conformer to religion, and were all conformers. The fact is, we all have opinions and views, I love smashing bible thumpers, cause its so easy and its feels so right. Like I said, aint nothing wrong with religion or the bible as a good guide for daily living (which even then has many flaws as its an outdated old-fashioned male written book) but not to be taken as fact.