Please somebody answer my questions:

1)Can I apply harmonic mixing techniques, when I spin progressive trance? Songs like
Sultan & The Greek - Wadi
Portishead - Roads (Sultan & Tone Depth Remix)
Barakka - Song To The Sirren (Max Graham Club Mix)
Can somebody key these tunes?

2)Which steps can I make, according to Camelot Sound System?
For example, when I have 6A tune, I can mix it with 5a/6a/7a?
Any other steps?

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Top 3 livesets atm
1. Tiesto at Cream Amnesia 28/07/2005
2. Tiesto at Cream Amnesia 04/08/2005
3. John Digweed at Eventshall 30/04/2005

hey hailstone,

1) yes you can definitely apply harmonic mixing techniques to progressive trance, unless your songs are just totally atonal (highly unlikely)

2) if you have a 6A tune, it's compatible with 5A, 6A, 7A and 6B. furthermore, it wouldn't sound all that bad with 5B or 7B (so essentially plus or minus 1 number). some other people in this forum mentioned jumps (such as 6a<->3a and 4a<->8a) but it doesn't really work like that, and they would be slightly out of key (although maybe less than other combinations)... keep in mind, if you play a song at +/- 6% you're shifting it up/down one number too (unless you have key lock on)

Thank you qualia

My another question:
What is the best source for keying my tracks? I cant do it myself
I used [[ LINK REMOVED ]]
, but a lot of ppl here are talking about the errors in d-base.

___________________
Top 3 livesets atm
1. Tiesto at Cream Amnesia 28/07/2005
2. Tiesto at Cream Amnesia 04/08/2005
3. John Digweed at Eventshall 30/04/2005

thx Nou - i had printed off a copy of that chart but i was in too much of a hurry to actually read about how to use it hehe

also, ive found the database at mixshare to be pretty helpfull as far as reducing the number of unknown keys in my bag however ive also come a cross a few that ive seen as listed otherwise

like Tiesto - Adagio - i read it a couple times listed here on this thread as A#m but then i noticed it somewhere else as Fm


sucks not knowing which is right

must keep practicing!

___________________
*Fav tune at the moment*
Vector Burn - Paradise Lost
"This is the life we chose, the life we lead. There is only one guarantee - None of us will see heaven"

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM Next thread - trance for listening to when you are halfway down the stairs in your house...

hailstone, if you're looking for a free resource of key information, mixshare.com is the largest at the moment. there are a few other sites too (such as djprince and harmonizer), however, i made sure to assimilate all information from those sites into the mixshare server... you can also pay $$$ to get professionally keyed tunes from camelot, but mixshare.com is free ;-) not to mention, it is constantly growing as it's based on user submissions... i think it has more keyed tunes than camelot offers as well

i think all free key information will be slightly inaccurate since it's based on what people submit. you can always shell out cash for keyed tunes, but then you don't learn how to do it yourself, and in the end that's very important... such is the beauty of a free collaborative solution like mixshare ;-)

Here are a few breaks tracks I keyed. I used a guitar and I never bothered to memorize the notes on the neck so I may have mislabeled some. Let me know if you have any corrections.

Hybrid - Blackout (Hybrid Y4K Edit) 128 BPM A Flat minor 1A
Hybrid - I'm Still Awake part 2 (Christian J remix) 130BPM A Flat minor 1A
Meat Katie & Elite Force - Fabulous Mint 400 130 BPM A Flat minor 1A
Soul of Man - Shake em Down (Dylan Rhymes remix) 132 BPM A Flat Minor 1A
Dylan Rhymes - The Way (Evil 9 Remix) 132 BPM E flat minor 2A
Uberzone & Simply Jeff - Science (Mission to Mars mix) 132 BPM E minor 9A
DJ Icey - Bass Response 134 BPM B Flat Minor 3A
Fine Cut Bodies - Trekk Far (Elite Force Mix) 134 BPM D Minor 7A
Uberzone & Rennie Pilgrem - Fuego 134 BPM A Minor 8A
F Massif - Bitstreak 134 BPM B Minor 10A
Uberzone & Simply Jeff - Science (Prototype mix) 136 BPM E Minor 9A

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I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

Latest Mix

quote:

does say at the bottom that its obsolete....... i havent learned that much about music theroy yet(plan to) so im somewhat lost here - are there keys that are the same only have a diff name as you go higher up the scale?

I'm in the same boat as this guy, and it says harmonic mixing is obselete now? --Ummm, is that true or did I misread it (or did I read it right? --in which case this entire thread is pointless?? I'll assume I misread it.)

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-trance85

quote:

Originally posted by trance85 I'm in the same boat as this guy, and it says harmonic mixing is obselete now? --Ummm, is that true or did I misread it (or did I read it right? --in which case this entire thread is pointless?? I'll assume I misread it.)

think it meant the chart was obsolete... still find it pretty usefull tho

___________________
*Fav tune at the moment*
Vector Burn - Paradise Lost
"This is the life we chose, the life we lead. There is only one guarantee - None of us will see heaven"

quote:

Originally posted by RickyM Next thread - trance for listening to when you are halfway down the stairs in your house...

quote:

Originally posted by qualia 2) if you have a 6A tune, it's compatible with 5A, 6A, 7A and 6B. furthermore, it wouldn't sound all that bad with 5B or 7B (so essentially plus or minus 1 number). some other people in this forum mentioned jumps (such as 6a<->3a and 4a<->8a) but it doesn't really work like that, and they would be slightly out of key (although maybe less than other combinations)... keep in mind, if you play a song at +/- 6% you're shifting it up/down one number too (unless you have key lock on)

I'm afraid I will have to correct you on that as it does work.

The reason is that let's take 6a (Gm) works with a 3a (A#m) is because those notes are actually found in the chord of Gm. What you in effect are actually doing is creating a chord from the two tracks.
If you do the 6a to 10a type mix you are creating a 'harmony' with Gm and Bm.
These methods do work and are used regularly by the likes of Tiesto and Armin to give their sets extra energy.
You will from time to time get tracks that don't work together in any of the harmonic mixing principals but that may be because they use incompatible scales rather than anything else.


Your words on pitch are however wise as when you change the pitch control you do change the key of a track.
To change a track by one whole semitone you have to change the speed by 4.5%

It has been stated in other threads that knowledge of scales is important but I actually beleive that knowledge of how chords work is actually more useful.

Cheers
Nem

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https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

hey Nem, thanks for explaining that! i may have learned something new here, and if so, will be incorporating this logic into rapid evolution...

so i'd like to clarify my understanding--are you saying a song in 6a and 3a are just as likely to sound in key as 6a and say, 5a? i assume this 3 step interval works across the board, i.e. 4a is compatible with 7a?

can you elaborate on "thsoe notes are actually found in the chord of Gm"? perhaps my chord knowledge is lacking, but in terms of key scales, the notes of 6a (Gm) and 3a (A#m) are:

Gm - G A A# C D D# F
A#m - A# C C# D# F F# G#

now, i can see that perhaps certain chords in these two keys might combine to make other interesting, harmonic chords, but in general i think there are a lot of notes in the keys that differ... it would seem to me 2 melodies in these different keys would not go over each other well (however a more harmonic, chord based song might work?)...

am i not undestanding?

thanks for enlightening me... ;-)

I hear what you are saying and yes... let's be clear about this. If you let the songs drift to far into each other you will get a less than enjoyable result but as far as basslines are concerned etc you can combine tracks in these keys successfully and maybe even more dramatically than the regular methods.

Let's think guitar for a minute.
If you play a chord in a G (not barre), natrually your first finger will be on the G. But then if you think what the next note in that progression is it's a B.
You can take it quite far and look into so many different chords.

Part of this does come down to knowing your records very well but you will find some truly awesome uplifting ways to mix by taking it further than just the regular way. Sometimes it can be trial and error but generally I find it works and does work on the dancefloor quite nicely.

Cheers
Nem

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https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Part of this does come down to knowing your records very well

Yup, knowing songs well enough that you can pinpoint when to start the next record is something that can make your mixes even more seamless. For example, occasionally I'll be in the middle of a mix between two songs, and the bassline on the outgoing one cuts out as it winds down, but the bassline on the incoming track hasn't begun yet. If you're trying to raise the energy level, this sort of thing can counteract your efforts, depending on what exactly you're going for. So as Nem said, just know the records well. Having not known some of my records has gotten me into a bit of trouble more times than I care to mention...

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Sometimes it can be trial and error but generally I find it works and does work on the dancefloor quite nicely.

Indeed - some of the coolest mixes and transition points between tracks that I've discovered have been purely trial and error. It's difficult to find things like that, and to progress as a DJ, if you aren't willing to risk trying something different every now and then.

I have no idea if these points relate much to what you guys were discussing, as I didnt read this entire page of new posts, but hey, some general advice never hurts