quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Personally, I seek science, but am humble enough to realize that faith place a big part.

Well, it depends on what you're looking for. If you want to build models and make predictions that will help you in life, science is all you need. If you really want to understand the universe... well, past a certain point, you can't; faith is all you have. I personally don't think it's all that important or meaningful to ask questions that are unanswerable by science; I'm quite sure I'll go the grave never understanding the origins of the universe, but I'm OK with that.


Still, maybe it is human nature to *want* to know.

The anthropic principle provides a bit of insight. A very interesting theory is the fine-tuned universe, which claims that intelligent life would never arise in a universe if the fundamental physical quantities were tweaked by a small amount. Thus the fact that we are here to question our own existence is very much related to properties of the universe itself.

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Slightly off topic...but here's a paper by an Oxford philosopher which makes an argument that we may actually be living in a computer simulation of an advanced civilization.

http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.pdf

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Originally posted by evil_cookie Perception belongs to the realm of subjectivism. Observational consensus--the scientific method--belongs to the realm of objectivism. so no, everything is not perception.

someone doesn't know the theory of relativity! it's all relative man!

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Originally posted by DJ_Elyot Science allows us to conclude things based on evidence, where concluding things based on faith, by definition, means accepting them as true WITHOUT evidence.

it's not as easy as this actually. if you are an actual scientist it doesn't work like that at all. it's actually quite annoying.

When did this thread get so confusing and heavy?

(omg)

9 pages grown overnight... too much to read... just got the new village idiot part

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Originally posted by Abercrombie 9 pages grown overnight... too much to read... just got the new village idiot part

To sum it up, it was an argument about nothing where the atheists claimed that supernatural occurrences cannot be tested and thus dont exist therefore religion is a load of crap while religion really is based on a belief.

PS. I think the term "Act of God" should be scrapped from the known vocabulary....its offensive

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Most "supernatural" phenomena (ESP, exorcisms, Ouija boards, dowsing, poltergeists, magnetic bracelets, etc.) really are a load of crap because there are rational explanations (observer-expectancy and subject-expectancy effects, confirmation bias, ideomotor response, cold reading, hallucinations, placebo effect, or just outright fakery) that the proponents of said phenomena simply refuse to believe or acknowledge. In other words, these beliefs CAN be tested but the believers simply refuse to subject them to any scientific scrutiny.

Most theists, with the notable exception of the "creation science" crowd, explicitly acknowledge that their beliefs are not scientific and cannot be tested. Thus, there is really no argument.

It's just unfortunate that certain people (Yohan and Elyot, I'm looking at you) have to poison the debate by introducing tangential elements like exorcisms and Friday the 13th that are sorta kinda similar but actually not really.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut It's just unfortunate that certain people (Yohan and Elyot, I'm looking at you) have to poison the debate by introducing tangential elements like exorcisms and Friday the 13th that are sorta kinda similar but actually not really.

number one rule of tranceaddict. all threads are to be hijacked or go off on a tangent

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Most "supernatural" phenomena (ESP, exorcisms, Ouija boards, dowsing, poltergeists, magnetic bracelets, etc.) really are a load of crap because there are rational explanations (observer-expectancy and subject-expectancy effects, confirmation bias, ideomotor response, cold reading, hallucinations, placebo effect, or just outright fakery) that the proponents of said phenomena simply refuse to believe or acknowledge. In other words, these beliefs CAN be tested but the believers simply refuse to subject them to any scientific scrutiny. Most theists, with the notable exception of the "creation science" crowd, explicitly acknowledge that their beliefs are not scientific and cannot be tested. Thus, there is really no argument. It's just unfortunate that certain people (Yohan and Elyot, I'm looking at you) have to poison the debate by introducing tangential elements like exorcisms and Friday the 13th that are sorta kinda similar but actually not really.

Well, I thought my example of Friday the 13th was extremely relevant. I'm not just trying to trash religion for its attempt to explain supernatural events; I'm also trashing it for causing irrational and damaging behaviour among the general public. I claimed that the damage that would be caused by an irrational and unfounded fear of Friday the 13th would be unacceptable, yet the damage caused by the religious condemnation of practices like homosexuality and birth control are even worse.

I don't see how that is irrelevant at all. It is the primary reason WHY I detest religion. People running around and believing in ghosts and a mystical fairy man in the sky... well, if it was just that, there wouldn't be a problem. But ACTING based on this "faith" and making decisions based upon it (like hating your homosexual neighbours because your magic book says that homosexuality is an abomination, or refusing to use a condom because your pointy-hatted religious leader tells you not to)... well, that is incredibly damaging to society. I don't feel like I should tolerate that just because you think your magic book is "holy".

I'm not so much interested in discussing whether or not one is justified in believing something that they can't explain. The question is about whether taking action based on such a belief is justified.

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quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess it's not as easy as this actually. if you are an actual scientist it doesn't work like that at all. it's actually quite annoying.

Bahahahah. I never said that experimental science was easy! That's why I chose mathematics.

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so all those atheists who say they are all based on science and fact and all.... does homosexuality scientifically make sense?


oh wait...touchy subject? lets get into that...please

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