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Originally posted by EgosXII go read the fucking constitution if you love the country so much, then come back here and explain how you can possibly criticise freedom of information and press, and transparent government bodies if you know anything about the creation, or the ideology behind the creation of the united states.

Go tell your Australian countryman to get the fuck out of our business.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Go tell your Australian countryman to get the fuck out of our business.

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Well then tell your countrymen to stop doing shady business.

Though you are basically advocating for the death of an innocent man since by leaking the docs Assange hasnt done anything wrong. Inconvenient yes, illegal no.

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Originally posted by Moongoose Well then tell your countrymen to stop doing shady business. Though you are basically advocating for the death of an innocent man since by leaking the docs Assange hasnt done anything wrong. Inconvenient yes, illegal no.

He is a problem. Problems need to be dealt with in any way necessary.

If his stated goal is the downfall of the US then he is an enemy of the United States. It is no more complicated than that.

What shady business?

You keep talking about this shady business but have no evidence, not even from these cables...

His goal is the downfall of the US. LOL its not to fucking make it more open, he even says his goal is that it will close up and become even more secret so that it will fall apart from the inside.

You are bat shit insane if you are citizen of the US, or support the US and feel that wikileaks is some sort of good thing for it.

Just say it, you guys do not like the US, you want to see it fail. Its ok, I will understand that, every country is out for itself, but if you are hiding your true feelings behind a mask of humanism in the idea that information is the right of the people than you are fucking lying to yourself.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Go tell your Australian countryman to get the fuck out of our business.

seriously nou, do you know how unamerican you are??

do you have any idea of what the american state was meant to represent? Do you have any idea how wrong its gone?

do you also have any concept of objectivity? do you know why judges and jurors cannot know the person on trial? Its because people involved in the problem can never take an objective view.

You, as a US citizen have very little objectivity, and clearly also have no knowledge whatsoever about what's going on, and why freedom is important.

I don't want the US to collapse, i want it to stop being a complete farce, stop being a state run on hypocrisy and hyperbole, and to actually live up to its ideals!

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Originally posted by EgosXII seriously nou, do you know how unamerican you are?? do you have any idea of what the american state was meant to represent? Do you have any idea how wrong its gone? do you also have any concept of objectivity? do you know why judges and jurors cannot know the person on trial? Its because people involved in the problem can never take an objective view. You, as a US citizen have very little objectivity, and clearly also have no knowledge whatsoever about what's going on, and why freedom is important.

The success of the state is the success of the people.

Do you understand that?

Where are we entitled to freedom to know everything our government does? Tell me, since you seem so scholarly on the constitution of a country you do not even live in.

We are entitled to the freedom of speech, to the freedom of expression and to not be persecuted for those things. We as CITIZENS are entitled to that. Assange is not a citizen of the United States.

He is a foreign national who's stated goal is the collapse of the United States. If you asked Assange if governments should be allowed to keep secrets and keeping secrets are vital to their survival he would agree. He knows it is vital, thats why he is doing this, because it will hurt the US, it will make it less powerful and it will make it a weaker player in the world.

Tell me this, do you think the US should publish all its technical information on its defense projects? Including nuclear weapons? We should publish how to miniaturize nuclear weapons so you can put them on top of rockets (put LOTS of them on top of rockets)? How to make them more efficient weapons of mass destruction?

Do you think that is information the world has the right, no the "need" to know?

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby He is a problem. Problems need to be dealt with in any way necessary. If his stated goal is the downfall of the US then he is an enemy of the United States. It is no more complicated than that.

His stated goal is transparency, free flow of information, freedom of the press and an informed public...if that makes him an enemy of the us that needs to be dealt with in any way necessary...well that makes your country all kinds of fucked up.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby You keep talking about this shady business but have no evidence, not even from these cables... His goal is the downfall of the US. LOL its not to fucking make it more open, he even says his goal is that it will close up and become even more secret so that it will fall apart from the inside. You are bat shit insane if you are citizen of the US, or support the US and feel that wikileaks is some sort of good thing for it. Just say it, you guys do not like the US, you want to see it fail. Its ok, I will understand that, every country is out for itself, but if you are hiding your true feelings behind a mask of humanism in the idea that information is the right of the people than you are fucking lying to yourself.

What shady busines? Seriously? Have you been following any of the stuff being released? Looks its 2.30 am so its a bit too late for me to give you a lesson, but be a good boy while the teacher takes a nap and do some self study. ---> http://www.guardian.co.uk/

Also stop being a twat, support for greater transparency in governments doesnt equal being anti american.

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Originally posted by Moongoose His stated goal is transparency, free flow of information, freedom of the press and an informed public...if that makes him an enemy of the us that needs to be dealt with in any way necessary...well that makes your country all kinds of fucked up. What shady busines? Seriously? Have you been following any of the stuff being released? Looks its 2.30 am so its a bit too late for me to give you a lesson, but be a good boy while the teacher takes a nap and do some self study. ---> http://www.guardian.co.uk/ Also stop being a twat, support for greater transparency in governments doesnt equal being anti american.

From Assange:

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"Since 2006, we have been working along this philosophy that organizations which are abusive and need to be [in] the public eye. If their behavior is revealed to the public, they have one of two choices: one is to reform in such a way that they can be proud of their endeavors, and proud to display them to the public," he told Time. "Or the other is to lock down internally and to balkanize, and as a result, of course, cease to be as efficient as they were. To me, that is a very good outcome, because organizations can either be efficient, open and honest, or they can be closed, conspiratorial and inefficient."

His goal is not to be transparent, his goal is to hurt the US. He has said it his fucking self.

If the people of the US wanted more transparent government then its up to the citizens of the US to do it. We should not have our internal policy dictated to us from outside sources, especially those that are individuals with delusional and destructive motives.

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Well then tell your countrymen to stop doing shady business. Though you are basically advocating for the death of an innocent man since by leaking the docs Assange hasnt done anything wrong. Inconvenient yes, illegal no.

WHoever gave him the documents did something illegal. Assange knew this, has and was informed and warned about it, therefore he is contributing to the crime that has been committed (yes it is a crime, hence whoever did it broke w.e. trust and laws that he consented to, yes?)
So, in a sense he is acting as the extension of the crime.

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I hate to bust out the child pornography argument, but...

If someone takes a picture of a child being raped or molested and then gives it to someone else and that person spreads it all over should that person be guilty of a crime?

In the end it is just information right? Its not harmful to anyone anymore, the crime could have taken place decades ago... Its just information now. Where do you place the boundaries on what information deserves privacy?