quote:

Originally posted by Galapidate mike, do us all the favor of shutting your piehole

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Originally posted by Galapidate Maybe I should start a thread like "Hey look, it's that douche mike surrounded by all these TAs! hahaha"

You are a prime example of what the dictionary deems an intellectual!

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Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive.

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Originally posted by occrider Besides, if we start sending christians from here to live there we'll have less tv-evangelist christians in the country to worry about.

That's too funny!

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

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Originally posted by occrider It was more or less a joke . I hate bible thumpers as much as the next man. I'm just saying that the Jews and the Muslims can't seem to agree as to who should have it, so I think that neither should have it.

I'll work with your line of reasoning for a minute.
If the Israeli's were to go to Mecca today and state a claim to it what would you think? Say the Israeli's really did go to Saudi Arabia and claimed Mecca to be theirs some ridiculous way or another. Say fighting continued for years on end and nothing looked promising in current talks on the issue between diplomats. Would you now say, "no one should get it because they can't agree to anything"? Hell no, you would say, who the fuck are these Israeli's trying to fool... get the fuck out and shut the fuck up! And this is exactly what I say when Arafat claims Jerusalem to be his "holy spot"! He only wants it because it belongs to the Jew's... anything the Jew's have he wants... the destruction of Israel is not a fallacy... its reality for these evil fucks! When will everyone wake up and realize what’s really happening here? When will people realize how ridiculous it is for them to have a claim to Jerusalem... just as ridiculous as Israel having a claim to Mecca! Snap the fuck out of it already!

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Signature Suspended as it was deemed offensive.

The importance of Jerusalem to Muslims isn't - perhaps - as significant as its importance to Christians or Jews, but it's still wrong to say that the significance of Jerusalem to Muslims is the same as the significance of Mecca to Jews. Jerusalem is the first "Qibla" for praying Muslims - meaning, the first direction they pray towards in their "salah" (the ritual series of prayers they perform several times daily). Also, the third most important mosque in Islam is situated there:

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Prophet Muhammad was the first Muslim who entered Jerusalem and prayed at Al-Aqsa Mosque, as Imam with the prophets during the Nocturnal Journey and Ascension. Also the prayer ordinance became a Muslim obligation from over Jerusalem during Ascension. Hence Al-Aqsa Mosque became the first Qiblah and the third Mosque in Islam. On the other hand, there are several sayings in which prophet Muhammad confirms the importance and holiness of Al-Aqsa Mosque, and urges all Muslims to visit Jerusalem continuously and to defend it.

http://131.103.199.78/jerusalem/feedback.htm

Having said that, it's not as though I side with the Palestinians ahead of the Isrealis (or, at least, the Jewish Isrealis) because, the way I see it, both sides are - fundamentally - wrong. Palestinians need to recognise Isreal's legitimacy as an independant state and do everything under their power to curtail Palestinian terrorism, whereas the Isreali's need to recognise the legitimacy of the Palestinian people (and other Arabic cultures) and abandon, for instance, the contruction of further settlements in the West-Bank and the Gaza Strip. Until such a compromise is reached - and both sides can acknowledge the legitmacy of the other - I don't see much hope for peace there.

Returning to the issue of Jerusalem, though, perhaps it would make more sense to make it an independent state like the Vatican City? The UN could have ultimate authority over the area, but designate power to subordinate authorities comprising both local Jews and local Muslims (and perhaps Christians if we want to go down that path?) meaning that, for an individual to get into power in the government of Jerusalem, he would have to recognise both the legitimacy of the local Palestinian and Isreali population? So, if they want a say in how Jerusalem is run, they need to be able to get along with people of opposing points of view?

Just an idea. I doubt the Isreali people would be willing to surrender control of their capital (understandably) but still - at least the suggestion's been put forward.

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

Ah, here we go:

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The United Nations General Assembly decided in 1947 on the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem to be an international city. The plan, which was rejected by the Palestinians, was never implemented.

This is what I'm talking about. It's also what Occrider was talking about before I presume.

Would you reject this solution, just out of interest melech_mike? Or, if you're representing the other view, Cyrus King, would you reject it?

Seems reasonable enough to me (being the huge authority on the issue that I am).

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http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

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Originally posted by melech_mike You are a prime example of what the dictionary deems an intellectual!

Take it easy Mike, it was a joke...altho I can;t say the same for my friend Galapidate....
Anyway, wouldn't be funny if some souhtern tv-evangelist tired to do an exorcism on some home appliance in Jerusalem and then throw bibles at people telling them that slavation lies within? I wouldn't be able to stop laughing!

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It has to start somewhere,
It has to start sometime,
What better place then here?
What better time than now?
--Rage Against the Machine

it sounds to me like some of you are assuming that Palestinian=Muslim. not true, if you arent Jewish in the Middle East, youre Palestinian, generally.

and some would argue that Bible beating Southern USers arent even true Christians...

as for mikes comparison with Mecca? wtf...that didnt make any sense. Israeli or Palestinian interests with respect to Jerusalem are concrete. that doesnt have anything to do with Jews going to Mecca to control it- theres no reason they would|

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'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

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Originally posted by biznology it sounds to me like some of you are assuming that Palestinian=Muslim. not true, if you arent Jewish in the Middle East, youre Palestinian, generally.

Actually, of Israel's 6 million population about 1 million are non-Jews. Of the non-Jews 75% are muslim, 16% christian, and 9% druze. Plus the minority of non-Jews are groing at a faster rate than Jews. So I think that in a few years the claim that if you aren't Jewish you are Palestinain will not hold true in the near future.

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by DrummeRaver86 Take it easy Mike, it was a joke...altho I can;t say the same for my friend Galapidate.... Anyway, wouldn't be funny if some souhtern tv-evangelist tried to do an exorcism on some home appliance in Jerusalem and then throw bibles at people telling them that slavation lies within? I wouldn't be able to stop laughing!

You know, I shouldn't be laughing, but I am.
Okay, this is serious now, no more funny stuff!

Okay, seriously though, Hamas has just been reported as saying they will not concede to a truce. They feel that there were not enough concessions given to them. So does anyone know what other concessions this extremist group wants? And Mike, don't yell out, "take over Israel" just yet, I seriously am wondering if they want any real truce at all. But if they don't, again I ask the question I asked in another thread - wouldn't the Palestenian PM consider them a threat to the peace process, and therefore bomb the crap out of their headquarters? Or at least arrest them, because they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. And if they truly want no truce at all, they need to be eliminated, period.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

What's druze?

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Originally posted by MisterOpus1 You know, I shouldn't be laughing, but I am. Okay, this is serious now, no more funny stuff! Okay, seriously though, Hamas has just been reported as saying they will not concede to a truce. They feel that there were not enough concessions given to them. So does anyone know what other concessions this extremist group wants? And Mike, don't yell out, "take over Israel" just yet, I seriously am wondering if they want any real truce at all. But if they don't, again I ask the question I asked in another thread - wouldn't the Palestenian PM consider them a threat to the peace process, and therefore bomb the crap out of their headquarters? Or at least arrest them, because they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. And if they truly want no truce at all, they need to be eliminated, period.

Hammas is essentially the Palestinian hardline counterpart to the Likkud almost. They want all of Jerusalem which will never happen I'm afraid, and they want the issue of the right of return resolved which I'm afraid also will not happen. Israel may concede towards the creation of a Palestine state, they may concede towards removing illegal settlements, and (fingers crossed) they may even concede towards removing permenant settlements over time. However I don't believe they'll transplant whole segments of the Israeli population in Israel proper to accomodate refugees that left the area over 50 years ago. There are indeed truly part of the problem since their hardline stance and opposition of the peace process probably does not represent the majority of the Palestinian population.

Anyway, the Druze are a multi-national religous group who are similar to the Arabs of the region, but consider themselves neither Arabs nor Muslims, and do not intermarry with Muslims or Jews. There are about 300,000 of them in the Middle East. I think they're more or less looked down upon by everybody else. Hmmm the closest thing I can think of that would be analogous to that group would be something like the amish or the quakers in the US.

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by occrider Hammas is essentially the Palestinian hardline counterpart to the Likkud almost. They want all of Jerusalem which will never happen I'm afraid, and they want the issue of the right of return resolved which I'm afraid also will not happen. Israel may concede towards the creation of a Palestine state, they may concede towards removing illegal settlements, and (fingers crossed) they may even concede towards removing permenant settlements over time. However I don't believe they'll transplant whole segments of the Israeli population in Israel proper to accomodate refugees that left the area over 50 years ago. There are indeed truly part of the problem since their hardline stance and opposition of the peace process probably does not represent the majority of the Palestinian population.

Well this brings me back to my question then - why would Abbas not consider Hammas a threat to the peace process, and eliminate them altogether? Because to me, if they do not take measures to eliminate this group, they are in essence aiding and abetting them. There cannot be anything gained by this suicidal terrorist group, is there? It just seems like common sense to me.

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...