quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Yes, on this account. But you have also posted a lot on your previous account, shlomo_hamalech, which was often signed by something like shlomo eliyahu baron if I'm not mistaken.

HAAAAAAAA...i suspected it was this idiot from before....HAHHAHHA...SLOW_MO is back kids... back from is permenant ban!

Swamper..or mods..watch out for this guy, he's a racist.

___________________
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quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King HAAAAAAAA...i suspected it was this idiot from before....HAHHAHHA...SLOW_MO is back kids... back from is permenant ban! Swamper..or mods..watch out for this guy, he's a racist.

I cant wait to se Sholomo get baned again!!

btw Sholomo if you are really persian take off the flag becuase you are a descrace.

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there are enough ppl here to debate stuff


my sole goal here is to get everyone to realize that a lot of the 'debating' here is not purely intellectual based.

IT IS EMOTIONALLY BASED.

for instance, if someone is in love, they will use their logic to rationalize anything they can in the name of love, the feeling, the emotion.

I clearly see that here.

Say whatever you want about me, but I am right.

Emotions about ISRAEL SPECIFICALLY are raging here, and I see too many people basing their debates on their feelings!!!!

I am not the best in this forum because you guys have a certain methodology of debating here. I don't care to fit in, because it will take too long, and I know my views here are emotionally unacceptable to most. But anyone who wants to seriously discuss, then PM me and i'd be happy to have a nice long conversation! And we will see what the opinion of that person is of me after the PM conversation.

SIZE=4]so why bother?????[/SIZE]

I just hope to stimulate a discussion on this idea...

bring awareness to the fact, that consciously or sub-consciously anyone not DIRECTLY affected by something, has an emotional attachment to it, that automatically generates bias analysis. This emotional attachment is what propels them to get involved and research it to begin with.

the creation of a filter in our minds of whats acceptable and whats not, and the changing of reality into an illusion is what happens with certain individuals on this board that discuss Israel and is not affected by it, because:

1) they are not arab or from the middle east
2) they are not israeli, or live in israel

for these reasons, I see nothing but hate mongering going on when people discuss Israel..

cyrus king upsets me because on a board where I hope everyone is trying to understand the situation, he has his view, based on people like Noam Chomsky, well anyone that is jewish or israeli or an expert on the subject know very well that he is a self-hating jew and all his philosophy is bias against jews/israel.

cyrus king then 'filters' for the anti-israel/pro-palestinian position, and is very successful at creating validity for the obviously anti-israel bias.

I know from an insider angle both sides. He being not israeli/nor jewish, nor arab for that matter, has no role to play expect spectator.

Therefore, the obvious feelings and desires he has on this subject are from the very place that remove objectivity. His emotional feelings of anger and whatever else, at the unfair treatment (iho) of the arabs in Israel and the middle east.

But according to that logic, should cyrus king not also post about the mistreatment of other miniorities in other places?

What about in jordan, where an estimated 80% of 'palestinians' are run by a 20% hashimite minority government? (the hashimites are direct descendants from Mohhamed, the main prophet of islam)

or about the occupation of lebanon by syria.

having knowledge about these facts, and a wider understanding of the underlying reasons and events, I can safely see who is objective, and who has throw in the emotion to bring about what they can against those they made their minds up against or for.

So the lack of equality to anything else other then 'israeli brutality' (iho) shows that the emotional attachment to the situation removes his credibility to see both sides objectively, and in the end lends support to MY BELIEF, that cyrus king is blatently anti-israel, and therefore indirectly anti-jewish, because jews obviously support israel, and therefore are at odds with his position.

Being someone directly affected by the rise of anti-israel sentiment and anti-jewish sentiment which is being brought about by emotion and not logical thinking, I am suffering, along with millions of others, due to the emotional bias presented by those who wish to take up arms against the israeli brutality, while neglecting the sufferings of the wide number of other miniorities in the world, which in itself closes the case.

To end, If you want to present the problems of Israel, do it. Then follow up with the problems that THE OTHER SIDE HAVE AS WELL.

if anyone is at fault, in reality, its the arab party in israel, that hiding nothing plainly declares the hate of israel, and just ohhhh so much more!

like who are we kidding here?

this is from the official palestinian charter!!!!!!
but first what is the palestinian definition of PALESTINE? ALL OF THE LAND TO THE WEST OF THE JORDAN RIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how can a society that has in its offical charter be taken seriously regarding peace?

quote:

Article 15: The liberation of Palestine, from an Arab viewpoint, is a national (qawmi) duty and it attempts to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the elimination of Zionism in Palestine. Absolute responsibility for this falls upon the Arab nation - peoples and governments - with the Arab people of Palestine in the vanguard. Accordingly, the Arab nation must mobilize all its military, human, moral, and spiritual capabilities to participate actively with the Palestinian people in the liberation of Palestine. It must, particularly in the phase of the armed Palestinian revolution, offer and furnish the Palestinian people with all possible help, and material and human support, and make available to them the means and opportunities that will enable them to continue to carry out their leading role in the armed revolution, until they liberate their homeland.

israel may have its problems, but lets take a look at the other side, and apply EQUAL CRITICSM TO BOTH SIDES PROBLEMS.

article 15 sounds good to you?
here is article 19 which PLAINLY states that the creation of israel is illegal. How can there be objectivity to a people that declare straight up that israel is against their will, obviously there is hatred from the roots in the leadership and the nation that accepts that leadership!!!

quote:

Article 19: The partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and to their natural right in their homeland, and inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination.

finally article 22 which distorts zionism.

quote:

Article 22: Zionism is a political movement organically associated with international imperialism and antagonistic to all action for liberation and to progressive movements in the world. It is racist and fanatic in its nature, aggressive, expansionist, and colonial in its aims, and fascist in its methods. Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism placed strategically in the midst of the Arab homeland to combat the hopes of the Arab nation for liberation, unity, and progress. Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world. Since the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence and will contribute to the establishment of peace in the Middle East, the Palestinian people look for the support of all the progressive and peaceful forces and urge them all, irrespective of their affiliations and beliefs, to offer the Palestinian people all aid and support in their just struggle for the liberation of their homeland.

i am not a zionist for other reasons, PM me if you want to know why, but zionism is just the will and desire of a people without a homeland to return to it!!

LOL Whats the deal with all this villification???

anyways I think I spoke enough here.... lets see what the response is!

___________________
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quote:

Originally posted by DJBARON my sole goal here is to get everyone to realize that a lot of the 'debating' here is not purely intellectual based. IT IS EMOTIONALLY BASED.

would i be crazy to say that u bring a perfect example of this? In previous posts u seem to fly of the handle a bit.l

i hope your a gimmick, or my hope in humanity (what little was left anyway) is totally lost

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quote:

Originally posted by DJBARON Actually I am in an advanced post-collegate program that costs about $12,500, where 100 people get in a year, and its location is far from the shores of america. People from around the world go there, and only the upper .0001% can really have a chance. i study from 7am until 10pm daily. 6 days a week. 2-3pm is my time off. I got to go to class in 20 minutes. That class is studying works from an author 200 years ago, the book is a play between the soul and the intellect, on issues deep enough to give you a headache.

Hmmm...sounds like the highschool I went to. Don't go acting like you're better than anyone here.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Hmmm...sounds like the highschool I went to. Don't go acting like you're better than anyone here.

No this guy has some serious accomplishments. You see here in america our reading comprehension is so terrible that reading literature from authors over 200 years ago is like reading japanese. The last time I tried to look at a work from Kant or Chaucer I was like, wtf is this gibberish??? Don't even get me started on the odyssey, I couldn't even comprehend the picture on the cover! That's why in American schools we can only read literature from as far back as 20 or 30 years. But that's if you're in AP classes. Regular classes we just read comics or childrens' books. Here in America we is ignant!

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quote:

No this guy has some serious accomplishments. You see here in america our reading comprehension is so terrible that reading literature from authors over 200 years ago is like reading japanese. The last time I tried to look at a work from Kant or Chaucer I was like, wtf is this gibberish??? Don't even get me started on the odyssey, I couldn't even comprehend the picture on the cover! That's why in American schools we can only read literature from as far back as 20 or 30 years. But that's if you're in AP classes. Regular classes we just read comics or childrens' books. Here in America we is ignant!

all im trying to do is help paint a picture of someone who has an equally educated and valid opinion. This touches an issue I see all too often nowadays as well... CYNYCISM!

I just watched bowling for colombine... whow what a GOOOD MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

but I noticed there is not such a solid answer in the end, as to why america is how it is.

I think it is related to cynycism, and by the way, cynycism for those that are unfamiliar with the term here is a definition from wordreference.com :
cynical ['sýnýkəl]
adjective
1 distrustful or contemptuous of virtue, esp. selflessness in others; believing the worst of others, esp. that all acts are selfish

2 sarcastic; mocking

3 showing contempt for accepted standards of behaviour, esp. of honesty or morality
example: the politician betrayed his promises in a cynical way


most of the people on this board are cynical. No one believes in anything anymore. Am I wrong?

Post a positive thread asking everyone to tell what they believe in their hearts that propells them in their lives...

Western culture is void of that. First of all religion is ridiculed. Either your believing in something that in todays age can be made fun of, or your athiest lest you believe in something that is not tangible.

American culture is diverse, and based on an individuals perception, ask 10 people what the essense of america is and you will get 10 answers.

Human nature is for us to have something above us, something to believe in, something that we aspire to and levitate towards. For instance, we have the american dream. The possibility to become wealthy and live a luxurious life.

but my point, which I will drive home, is that today western society lacks any goal besides money, and 'getting by' so that we find ourselves finding anything to attach with. Greenpeace, and organizations like that are doing well. We have huge rallies all the time for war, against war, not sure about war, peace-war, everything.

But all I care about on the poly-forum is that israel is bashed non-stop. And why? because some westerners think they need to stick their noses into an issue that doesn't concern them, and then pick a side, and propagate against the other!!!!

This is probobly the reason that the whole world is getting pissed at america.


I was in amsterdam a month ago, checking out some parties and just chillin out, and I talked with some locals about the EU and what it means to them, and the general opinion is that it is an opponent to the american economy! I asked what about EU as a world power? and generally I didn't see any aspirations to take over the world but people are sick of american way of thinking....

Personally, I am not getting into opinion on this forum!!

I SEE WHERE THAT GOES!!!

PM ME ANYTIME FOR A REAL DISCUSSION!!!!!!

peace

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quote:

Originally posted by DJBARON I see all too often nowadays as well... CYNYCISM! -------- Human nature is for us to have something above us, ----- but my point, which I will drive home, is that today western society lacks any goal besides money,

Hey djbaron I seriously recommend u read a small book called
"Meditation: The Art of Ecstasy by Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh"

I know the title might lead u to think that it has nothing to do with your points but the book really does. Trust me, even if u dont agree with the perspective of the author it will make for a very interesting read.
Its only 240 small pages so it shouldn’t take too much time.

i realy think you guys are unfair, and not serious,

so you read the first 2 lines of DJBarons first post, and started laughing at how stupid he is when he said something about cyrus king bla bla...
but what about the rest of his first post on this thread?
no one of you guys even tried to reply on it, and he said there some vary interesting things, showing how the media interprated the situatin here...and how it understands the ending of the HUDNA...

noone of you replied to this or cuase you
1)agreed with it
2)dont have a true answer to what he pointed, then again agreeing with it
3)having no intention of disscussing politics and debating the facts of the reality in the middle east, but just wanting to start a little flame war again, moving to a tottally different issue..

and i think its sad, cause this is a Political Discation and Debate section of the forum...

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quote:

Originally posted by DJBARON all im trying to do is help paint a picture of someone who has an equally educated and valid opinion. This touches an issue I see all too often nowadays as well... CYNYCISM! I just watched bowling for colombine... whow what a GOOOD MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!! but I noticed there is not such a solid answer in the end, as to why america is how it is. I think it is related to cynycism, and by the way, cynycism for those that are unfamiliar with the term here is a definition from wordreference.com : cynical ['sýnýkəl] adjective 1 distrustful or contemptuous of virtue, esp. selflessness in others; believing the worst of others, esp. that all acts are selfish 2 sarcastic; mocking 3 showing contempt for accepted standards of behaviour, esp. of honesty or morality example: the politician betrayed his promises in a cynical way most of the people on this board are cynical. No one believes in anything anymore. Am I wrong? Post a positive thread asking everyone to tell what they believe in their hearts that propells them in their lives... Western culture is void of that. First of all religion is ridiculed. Either your believing in something that in todays age can be made fun of, or your athiest lest you believe in something that is not tangible. American culture is diverse, and based on an individuals perception, ask 10 people what the essense of america is and you will get 10 answers. Human nature is for us to have something above us, something to believe in, something that we aspire to and levitate towards. For instance, we have the american dream. The possibility to become wealthy and live a luxurious life. but my point, which I will drive home, is that today western society lacks any goal besides money, and 'getting by' so that we find ourselves finding anything to attach with. Greenpeace, and organizations like that are doing well. We have huge rallies all the time for war, against war, not sure about war, peace-war, everything. But all I care about on the poly-forum is that israel is bashed non-stop. And why? because some westerners think they need to stick their noses into an issue that doesn't concern them, and then pick a side, and propagate against the other!!!! This is probobly the reason that the whole world is getting pissed at america. I was in amsterdam a month ago, checking out some parties and just chillin out, and I talked with some locals about the EU and what it means to them, and the general opinion is that it is an opponent to the american economy! I asked what about EU as a world power? and generally I didn't see any aspirations to take over the world but people are sick of american way of thinking.... Personally, I am not getting into opinion on this forum!! I SEE WHERE THAT GOES!!! PM ME ANYTIME FOR A REAL DISCUSSION!!!!!! peace

I'm soooo confused. You have at least 10 topics for discussion in here that can be discussed in their own individual threads. What's the focal point of your argument? If you want a discussion, narrow down your thesis to very specific points that have some cohesion with one another. As it is now, it's impossible to have a discussion when you're jumping between 10 different points in a single post. However, I did find one statement you made to be quite humorous:

quote:

But all I care about on the poly-forum is that israel is bashed non-stop. And why? because some westerners think they need to stick their noses into an issue that doesn't concern them, and then pick a side, and propagate against the other!!!! This is probobly the reason that the whole world is getting pissed at america.

You're right, that is one of the reasons the whole world is getting pissed at America. So then I guess America shouldn't stick our "noses" into the issue where it doesn't belong. I suppose then that we should withdraw all our support for Israel and adopt a neutral stance? A stance whereby billions in lucrative military arms sales and financial aid should not go into Israel?

quote:

i realy think you guys are unfair, and not serious, so you read the first 2 lines of DJBarons first post, and started laughing at how stupid he is when he said something about cyrus king bla bla... but what about the rest of his first post on this thread? no one of you guys even tried to reply on it, and he said there some vary interesting things, showing how the media interprated the situatin here...and how it understands the ending of the HUDNA... noone of you replied to this or cuase you 1)agreed with it 2)dont have a true answer to what he pointed, then again agreeing with it 3)having no intention of disscussing politics and debating the facts of the reality in the middle east, but just wanting to start a little flame war again, moving to a tottally different issue.. and i think its sad, cause this is a Political Discation and Debate section of the forum...

I suppose you could consider me Pro-Israeli on these forums (actually I guess I am). And I do agree with some of the statements DJBaron made. It's too bad he took the wrong approach to express his opinion which is why many here are automatically discounting everything he says. If CyrusKing came out with a post saying "Hey everybody don't listen to Zionist Nazi Melech_Mike" nobody would take him seriously either.

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