quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer if you are talking about Iraq beign the haven for terrorists,go thank the U.S. for the lovely job that they are doing there!

No he was talking about Iran, and yes in Iraq at least they are actively doing something about the terrorist there. Unfortunately due to a clash of culture the Americans aren't able to use the ruthlessness requested by the locals to supress quickly such overt acts as is done in other areas of the middle east.

But this isn't the question at all.. The real shocking thing here is that the EUROPEANS BELEIVE ISRAEL IS THE WORLD'S BIGGEST THREAT!

I really don't understand why you guys are clamoring to this.. Ok fine, lets assume your position, Israel is a horrible abuser of human rights, and is an aparthiat state. This does not threaten the world! North Korea oppressing its own people in and off itself does not threaten the world, it is the aggressive nature of the North Koreans and their relentless pursuit of selling and aquiring illicit arms to illicit organizations.

I would think you guys could at least agree to yes Israel is a big threat to world peace, but it is not THE BIGGEST threat. I mean common even the Iran' Ayotollah's only call Israel "Little Satan", the USA is of course the "Big Satan". I mean it seems you fanaticism has gone so far to judge everything that brands Israel evil as a legitimate and logical reality! It's not!

I would be as appaled at the Europeans were they to say the Palestinians are the biggest threat to world peace!! They're not, they're the biggest threat to Israel's peace, not the worlds, not even the middle east!!

Amazing how you guys seem so blinded by your hate to Israel you refuse to concede even such a netrual point... I wish I could say I'm suprised, I really have come to accept many arguments form you, since you try to bring this in a fair light from the otherside of the conflict, but this, this is just well words can't describe.

Well enough on that rant.. let the bickering go on.

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Originally posted by Yoepus I wasn't talking about proportion, even though I do believe their is a larger majority of people that are terrorist and terrorist supporters in the countries I mentioned. For this though I have only the polls of opinion to reference this on. What I do reference the aforementioned countries as being supportive of terror is their financial and organizational support of terrorist organizations ("proxy" organizations). Iran does not conduct terror no, but the Hezbullah which is highly funded and trained by Iran does. Saudia Arabia the government does not train terrorist, but they offer financial assitance to organizations like Al Qaida.

Right; I myself don't have "hard" sources to back up what I first said, but the spirit of it (i.e., there are "haters" in any country) is what I was trying to convey. What I said in the second half of my post holds, I'd like to think, and that's really what is the issue here. Inner change can only bring about outer change!

Personally, I am optimistic about the world situation. Despite all that's happening today, I think that it won't escalate out of control *too* much, if at all. People are generally waking up. I hope that trend continues.

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Originally posted by Alccode The vast majority of people in those countries are not terrorist-oriented. In every country (including Israel as human nature is everywhere the same) you probably have the same proportion of "haters" (a.k.a. terrorists, terrorists-to-be, or those with terrorist-mindsets) to the rest of the population. Anyway, it's not a specific country X that is the "most" of a threat to world peace, it's humanity's delusions that are a threat to world peace. We shouldn't be blaming each other but look at ourselves and see what is fundamentally imbalanced there, that the world should be as such in consequence.

If you have ever been to MIddle East Countries Most of youwill know that the people there are so friendly and are the first to " spit on the ground" towards terrosists . It is the government that is Anti US and the people can;t do anything about it. However in the USA you can do something about it but you don't really. But using force against another country is not going to solve the proble. When you the powerful country use force to achieve something how is another country going to react? By using force also.

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Originally posted by Izzy stop changing the subject... do you deny that fact that iran preachs hate towards jews (and the US and the western culture) and sends its money to originzations that use terrorism such as hezbollah, or were you just justifiying it in your response?

When you say Iran, youmean its people, culture and mentality. HAVE YOU BEEN TO IRAN??? i think you should rephrase your answer and say Iranian government or haters,In Iran they dislike Israels becuase of their actions. Israel will never be liked.. it will always be hated and looked down apart for as long as it lasts becuase of the nature in which it established itself, by removing an indigenous population and makeing room for themselves,Zionists went into that land to make it solely jewish...and remove Non jewish elements...tht meant removing palestinians and arabs from their homes,They didnt want to live in peace and share the land, they wanted it all for themselves They did through violent methods,killing them if they had to, in order to get that land.

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quote:

Originally posted by 2hardcore4u If you have ever been to MIddle East Countries Most of youwill know that the people there are so friendly and are the first to " spit on the ground" towards terrosists . It is the government that is Anti US and the people can;t do anything about it.

I agree. What you say about friendly people is also my observation, from reading publications from people who have travelled there personally; for example, National Geographic is great for articles written by folks (Americans, to boot!) being treated very nicely in foreign countries, even in the Middle East.

It is my view that the "common man" of any country is as peaceful as his neighbour. As a good friend of mine said, "We're all just trying to earn a decent living and live our lives." No one wants hatred, deep down. Those that do, are a little neurotic, and unfortunately they tend to be more ambitious and gain political posts.

My mistrust of politics is great; my trust lies in the common people; I think everyone should travel to as many other parts of the world as possible, to realize that we are all the same with the same hopes and fears. Yes, exactly the same. I think that the average North American thinks that people in different countries are of a different species. It's to be expected, then, when these people are surprised to find out that the average "Middle-Easterner" (including Israeli and Palestinian) is also primarily concerned about (a) earning money, (b) getting laid, and (c) living life, in whatever order. And the same holds true for the other way around.

Mob mentality is dangerous, though -- an Israeli confronting a Palestinian alone, and they would get along, especially if they didn't know where the other came from. But a group of them, and somehow people forget their humanity and resort to stupidity and mob mentality.

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However in the USA you can do something about it but you don't really.

This is a bit unfair. Nothing is in such black-and-white terms...



Regarding the poll that started this thread, I'm sure that there is some systematic inconsistency (i.e., "bias") inherent in it. It is not true that ALL Europeans think this way. The article states that 500 people from every EU member nation was "surveyed." I wonder how they were surveyed and what methods were used in gathering the data, posing the questions, etc. So please don't take this to heart too much, or be "mortally insulted" by it to the extent that you will cancel your trip to France next year, for example.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer When you say Iran, youmean its people, culture and mentality. HAVE YOU BEEN TO IRAN??? i think you should rephrase your answer and say Iranian government or haters,In Iran they dislike Israels becuase of their actions. Israel will never be liked.. it will always be hated and looked down apart for as long as it lasts becuase of the nature in which it established itself, by removing an indigenous population and makeing room for themselves,Zionists went into that land to make it solely jewish...and remove Non jewish elements...tht meant removing palestinians and arabs from their homes,They didnt want to live in peace and share the land, they wanted it all for themselves They did through violent methods,killing them if they had to, in order to get that land.

yes, my bad, i meant the iranian government. as you explained why iranians will always hate israelis, why are there calls in iranian mosques to kill jews all over the world?

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Originally posted by Alccode So please don't take this to heart too much, or be "mortally insulted" by it to the extent that you will cancel your trip to France next year, for example.

dont worry, im going to italy in two months for a two week vacation

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Originally posted by Izzy why are there calls in iranian mosques to kill jews all over the world?

That might be true,but do u think people will just say ok lets go and kill all the jews??There are Iranian Jews who live inside the country nad they live very peacefuly,and they are part of the society,not everyone in Iran is religious fanatic as you might think they are.so I dont think they hate the Jewish people,but perhaps they hate your government.

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In a round about sort of way I think Israel or at least the Israel V Palestine conflict is one of the biggest threats to world peace, because it forces everyone to pick a side, and breeds hate. If there was no conflict, the muslim worlds anti american sentiment wouldnt be nearly as high, and there would be radically fewer terorist incidents.

Now with that said, I still think any country ran by some crazy dictator thats building nuclear weapons is a much bigger threat to world peace.

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Originally posted by Izzy Liquid X, even if everything you say is true, does that imply that Israel is the most dangerous country to world peace?

- I've never really gotten into this debates, nor with my close friends ( who happen to be jews, like.. very dedicated to their country ).. I usually try to suck it up. But, ofcourse, jews will see it from a different perspective, maybe because of all the things they've gone through, I dont know. But for me, since Im neither muslim or jew, I kind of see things differently, or so it seems. What Im trying to say is that, after Israel has become that state, hate against the israelis and jews have risen for various reasons, not just because of the " heck of it ". There is a reason, and people need to understand history, and its consequences.- I mean, Israel has got lots of support from the US - for obvious reasons. And in some way, I see that its very unfair or atleast, hard for the Palestines to accept what Israel is doing, and what it has become militarily and money wise. Something with nations around Israel, they are stuck, and Israel is become like the superpower of the region, with borrowed land, if one can say that. I dont look at Israel as a threat to the world like Bush makes Iraq look, but I do see that the state of Israel has become a threat for at least, middle east peace, the rise of terrorism against Israel, because of the whatever actions and stuff like that. I know that Israel needs to protect itself and all, but I think it is fair for them to understand the "why" and look at it from the muslims, and its surrounding nations point of view. I wouldnt like to use the term "greed", but thats what it has somehow become. - I would though, like to reiteraite that this is a very delicate issue, and it does bring alot of anger, or discontent, and thats one of the reasons why I DO NOT talk this things with my friends, cause from the way they speak, they seem very passionte and strong about how they stand for Israel, and I can understand that. I dont want you guys to get me wrong and all, but thats how I see it.

A good idea would be to re-locate Israel. hehe it would be better off for both the Israelies and middle east, but hey.. I know its impossible. Just my near foremost solution

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quote:

Originally posted by LiquidX A good idea would be to re-locate Israel. hehe it would be better off for both the Israelies and middle east, but hey.. I know its impossible. Just my near foremost solution

Well sure! We'll just relocate the state of New-Israel around that tiny city of Mecca and we'll just let the Palestinians take over all of old-Israel/Jerusalem ... then everybody will live happily ever after

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