Minor Scale Chart
____1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th
C : C__D__D#_F__G__G#_A#
C#: C#_D#_E__F#_G#_A__B
D : D__E__F__G__A__A#_C
D#: D#_F__F#_G#_A#_B__C#
E : E__F#_G__A__B__C__D
F : F__G__G#_A#_C__C#_D#
F#: F#_G#_A__B__C#_D__E
G : G__A__A#_C__D__D#_F
G#: G#_A#_B__C#_D#_E__F#
A : A__B__C__D__E__F__G
A#: A#_C__C#_D#_F__F#_G#
B : B__C#_D__E__F#_G__A


ok so i just wanna make sure i read all this right....brit lit fried my brain earlier....


so anyways...if i have a choon that is in C I could effectivly harmonicly mix a track that is either F or G into it??

thanx in advance...

___________________

quote:

so anyways...if i have a choon that is in C I could effectivly harmonicly mix a track that is either F or G into it??

Yup, F is it's Sub Dominant and G is the Dominant. I personally prefer to use the mix into the sub dominant out of the two as you get a nice little lift out of that mix.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

ahh perfect......last question though

how accurate is the bpm in mixmeister?? i was thinking since im keying all my music i might as well lable everything with key and bpm....

is that a bad idea or no???

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Yup, F is it's Sub Dominant and G is the Dominant. I personally prefer to use the mix into the sub dominant out of the two as you get a nice little lift out of that mix.

other way around

Nope... I think you will find that F 'is' the sub dominant (5 steps on the chromatic scale) and G is the Dominant (7 steps on the chromatic scale). If that's what you were refering to?

Also, the lift you get out of a mix seems better the closer you are to the root.
The most effective energetic lift you can use is not even a blend of harmonies but a straight bass swap going from a C to a C#. They would sound rank if you blended them though.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

After spending a few hours playing in harmony, i've reached some conclusions:

-Mixmeister is correct about 80% of the time (4 out of 5 tracks)

-Mixing in perfect fifth or perfect fourth sounds much nicer than mixing in the same key; however, the bass swap sounds nicer in the same key

-To mix in the same key, you have to got perfect pitch; to mix in perfect fifth and perfect fourth (dominant and sub dominant) you may get away with a tiny pitch difference.

-Mixing range is usually up to 3 bpm; mixing with more than this doesn't sound very nice

-D minor and C minor seem to be the most common keys; F# and G# the most uncommon

-A minor is usually associated in very "happy" tracks; these tracks spread a lot of energy and happiness

-E minor is usually associated with banging tracks; these tracks hit harder than the rest

-D#, F and F# (minors) are usually associated with sad tracks

-African rythms are usually in C or D (minors).

-Two tracks may combine (by perfect fifth or perfect forth) but the track's "feeling" (kind of energy they spread) may be very different; however two tracks with the same key spread the same kind of energy


These conclusions apply mostly to house, as i spin few trance. But i think some of the concepts are common to all styles... Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Hey Borron,

Some interesting stuff you have there. But I might find that I disagree with some of it.

quote:

-Mixing in perfect fifth or perfect fourth sounds much nicer than mixing in the same key; however, the bass swap sounds nicer in the same key

Not always true, comes down to the tracks that you put together and what you do with them more often than not, and not the keys you mix.

quote:

-To mix in the same key, you have to got perfect pitch; to mix in perfect fifth and perfect fourth (dominant and sub dominant) you may get away with a tiny pitch difference.

Hmmm... not sure about this. I think it depends more on the types of sounds in the track really. Also some producers like to make tracks that are out of key with themselves sometimes so hard to say.

quote:

D minor and C minor seem to be the most common keys; F# and G# the most uncommon

Yup, C especially seems to be the most common key for music that uses our system. Most music theory begins with C scales and so on. Apparently it's also the easiest note for the human voice to hit (So I have heard).

quote:

-A minor is usually associated in very "happy" tracks; these tracks spread a lot of energy and happiness

Depends more on the scales used in a track really. Also most minor keys sound a little sad where as it's the major ones that sound happier. (Sometimes too happy.....)

quote:

-E minor is usually associated with banging tracks; these tracks hit harder than the rest

Yes... strange this one but I have a theory on it. I know that you get a load of rock/metal folks making dance music these days (all the techno and Hard Trance producers I know are ex thrash metal monsters) and most have probably picked up a guitar at some point. Most are also untrained (Such as myself until I started reading up on it) and therefore see the E as a more natural base for a track than the C.

quote:

-Two tracks may combine (by perfect fifth or perfect forth) but the track's "feeling" (kind of energy they spread) may be very different; however two tracks with the same key spread the same kind of energy

Yup the energy you get when you change key will usually also change the feel. I find that if you mix into a Dominant (Fith I beleive) you will actually get a slight drop in the energy (Hence I rarely do it) but the Sub Dominant (Fourth) will give a great lift. As I said earlier, the closer you are to the root the better the lift. But also as you say, the energy will remain constant if you mixed it's Tonic depending a little on the track you mixed of course but you are leaving yourself to the mercy of the music in that case.


Something that I have discovered over the years is that DJs also tend to choose their music according to key sometimes. I think it's a subconcious thing as we are more naturally drawn to some keys more than others. I have a lot of music that's in Cm, Am, Dm and Em.

It shows that you are definately paying attention to what you are doing though which I think will pay off for you and will ultimately make you a better DJ.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Nope... I think you will find that F 'is' the sub dominant (5 steps on the chromatic scale) and G is the Dominant (7 steps on the chromatic scale). If that's what you were refering to?

sorry, I wasn't particulalrly clear. What I meant is that you implied that by mixing from C minor into F minor you'd be giving the mix a lift in energy, where as by mixing into G minor you wouldn't. It's the other way round

quote:

Originally posted by magicsushi sorry, I wasn't particulalrly clear. What I meant is that you implied that by mixing from C minor into F minor you'd be giving the mix a lift in energy, where as by mixing into G minor you wouldn't. It's the other way round

Hey there Magicsushi,
After reading your post I thought I had to try it with different records and actually I found that it varies. Sometimes it's the 4th and sometimes the 5th that gives the lift. In conclusion I think that it seems to be more dependant on the track, and obviously I have been choosing them in a way that favours the way I described.

I also found tracks that work the way you described and the only thing that I can separate the two of them is sounds on top of bass lines. Found tracks that didn't lift or drop and actually sounded nice but didnt' give any particullar effect. Couldn't tell you why but that's what I found.

I suppose it may depend on which octave the loudest root sound is in? A change from C5 to G5 will lift where as a change from C5 to F4 would not and visa versa if you get what I mean. Just a theory.

I suppose the best thing is to go with what works as we all know (or should) our own records.

Cheers
Nem

___________________
https://www.mixcloud.com/Calvin_Karass/

Im sorry...now Im confused again. Whats this chroatic scale stuff and subdominant talk?

Thanks for the support Nem.
But i'm stil pretty much in the dark, i keep making mistakes.


I have many tracks which i can't classify. Take a look at this case:

I have a small very calm and relaxed track with a saxophone behind. It is quite difficult to find the correct key. Mixmeister gave me G minor, and i did a few mixes and it went ok. But a musician friend of mine came here and told me it was D. So i tried mixing with A to take away the doubts. It went well. And when i pass it through rapid evolution, it says it is an A minor. This happens to me all the time! I guess the best way to make sure is to find out by mixing, right? But the problem is that this track sounds nice when mixing with A, D, G and C! It does sound a little nicer with A than with C, so i'm making it a D.


Also another thing: let's imagine i have a track in A major. Can i treat it as an A minor, or i have to treat it as F# minor (the relative minor)?

Last edited by borron on Jan-15-2004 at 01:14