Well, there are some decent people in the South, so let's not paint everyone in the entire region as a people who think God appointed W president.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Heh, when the south voted democrat, democrats were reactionist while the republicans were progressive. During the time of your civil war, it was the republicans who wanted to abolish slavery, while the democrats wanted to keep the status quo.

Hehe exactly. It's a very interesting history. Basically, the "feel" of the South has never really changed throughout its history, but the party people have voted for has. The South has always been a haven for white supremacy and crazy David Koresh/Pat Robertson types, but the region doesn't always vote that way, as I'm about to prove.


The Democratic Party in the era around the time of Lincoln (especially in the South) billed itself as the "white man's party." It was the party of white supremacy and slavery. The Republican Party was founded on the concept of halting the spread of slavery West, and many in the party abhorred slavery. They were progressive abolitionists who began the cause of civil rights, and gave the Black man a right to vote during Reconstruction after the civil war. Andrew Johnson, the Vice President who became President after Lincoln was killed, was a Southern Democrat. Lincoln picked him in a show of solidarity since Johnson desired to preserve the Union, and did not join the Confederacy. He was a racist white supremacist though, with little regard for the freedman. He was easily one of our worst presidents ever. The Progressive Republican controlled House and Senate was able to override his veto with their 2/3rds majority, and pass many progressive reforms.

President Theodore Roosevelt I believe was the last progressive Republican president, but there remained many progressives in the Republican party until relatively recently when they were scared out by the Pat Robertson “abstinence only” types that now control the modern Republican Party. Woodrow Wilson was the first Democratic president who began to adopt progressive ideals, and his leadership helped the Democratic Party as a whole evolve into what it is today. He also pushed for the right to vote for women.


Then in ~1948, the National Democratic Party and President Truman (a man who had once joined the Klan but quit soon after because of anti-Catholic sentiment) adopted civil rights and desegregation as part of the party platform. Truman then desegregated the military by executive order, and appointed sympathetic judges to the Supreme Court and other federal courts. His appointments, and Eisenhower's appointment of Earl Warren, laid the groundwork for Brown vs. Board of Education that overturned the doctrine of "separate but equal."

When it was announced that the Democratic Party would support civil rights as part of the party platform, Southern Democrats walked out of the convention and more or less seceded from the Democratic Party. Disgruntled Southern Democrats formed a party called the "Dixiecrats" (more like “Dixierats”), and Strom Thurmond ran on the Dixiecrat ticket on a platform of white supremacy in 1948. He actually won four Southern States:



But then again, I doubt any Blacks were allowed to vote down there because of the literacy tests, poll taxes, and other “Jim Crow” tactics used against them.

Thurmond later became a Republican, and most of the Deep South has followed his lead. Republican Sen. Trent Lott of Alabama, for example, is a member of a White Supremacist group called the "White Citizens Council." Actually they've now changed their name of their organization to a less conspicuous one, but I somehow doubt they have any non-white members with their self-professed “pro white” views. Reagan campaigned on the racial fears of whites by opposing school bussing to integrate public schools, and:

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Reagan never supported the use of federal power to provide blacks with civil rights. He opposed the landmark Voting Rights Act of 1965. Reagan said in 1980 that the Voting Rights Act had been “humiliating to the South.”

The voting rights act of 1965 in all practicality gave the Black man the vote in the South. It's hard for me to swallow anyone being opposed to that, or even giving lip service to people who would oppose that. I’ll never forget my father’s story of how he was teaching in an inner city school when Reagan was shot, and the entire class cheered at the news.

If that’s not using racism to get votes, I don’t know what is.


Ok so the South may have some scary folks, but it’s not all bad:


With the help of House Majority leader Lyndon Johnson from Texas, a moderate, the progressive John F. Kennedy was able to win the South, and the presidency in 1960:



Ironically he was killed in the South, but he was a much-loved man in all the country. With Kennedy's death, the struggle for civil rights legislation and enforcement was actualized. It was John and Bobby Kennedy's shared dream along with Martin Luther King Jr., but Lyndon Johnson is the man who pushed that legislation through so that my father’s generation and mine had the opportunity to attend integrated public schools.


Progressive Jimmy Carter of Georgia, our Nation's last truly Christian president and humanitarian, won the South in 1976:




Republican George Bush Sr. won the South and most of the country in 1988, but he was a moderate and not nearly as err…like his son. In fact I respect the guy. He was one of the only Southerners to vote for a bill to end racial discrimination in housing, and unlike his son who plays dress up soldier, he's a real veteran of WWII.


[img]http://www.multied.com/elections/elects/1988.gif[/img]


Bill Clinton, a moderate left-wing Democrat won the Southern states of Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia, Tennessee, and Kentucky in 1992:




In Clinton’s reelection, he still did well in the South:



Gore was a really weak candidate compared to John Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, or Bill Clinton, so it doesn't surprise me he did so poorly in the South and even lost his home state. Bush was a pretty weak candidate as well, but he's improved his speech reading immensely since that time.

So if you want to know why most Blacks, Latinos, Jews, Asians, and other minorities mostly vote Democratic, it's because of Harry Truman, John and Bobby Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, and Jimmy Carter. I don’t think minority voters tend to think too fondly of Reagan’s opposition to the Voting Rights Act of 1965, or George W. Bush’s endorsement by, and speech at, Bob Jones University; a non accredited “university” that teaches “creation science” and until 3 or 4 years ago had a policy that banned interracial dating.

Racial division in the South continues to this day. In Texas for example, the Republicans split up many voting districts that are largely Black and Latino in order to dilute minority voting strength and give them more seats in the House of Representatives.

Of course political parties throughout history have been guilty of this practice of “gerrymandering,” but in the South it takes on a racist component. Personally, I’d like to see some reforms in how we create congressional districts so that they are competitive throughout the country. It should be “The People’s House” after all.


The Southern Democrats are still there; the Dixiecrats are still there. They’ve just traded names once again.

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Jan-22-2004 at 04:39

Now you see why I have a beef, no President can get into the White House without a significant victory in the Southern States and that is what scares me when you have G.W. Bush as president and up for re-election in November. I hope the Democrats can formulate a strategy to win some States down there.

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quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Now you see why I have a beef, no President can get into the White House without a significant victory in the Southern States and that is what scares me when you have G.W. Bush as president and up for re-election in November. I hope the Democrats can formulate a strategy to win some States down there.

0

precisely because!

you are a communist!!!!!!


but seriously...

its interesting to view the changes. above all it shows that you cant rely on one state or another. i shuddered when viewing the differences between my 2 home states - but that doesnt change the fact that during both elections the results were different!

your mom|

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quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Now you see why I have a beef, no President can get into the White House without a significant victory in the Southern States and that is what scares me when you have G.W. Bush as president and up for re-election in November. I hope the Democrats can formulate a strategy to win some States down there.

I'm not that scared. We have Clark and Edwards.

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I am a "southerner", but I think you are quite wrong NYCTranceFan. As Dave showed nicely, the south has not voted republican repeatedly whatsoever. I do not lean towards Bush at all.

I show full support for Clark. I have a high disinclination towards Howard Dean, whom I believe to be a hypocrite, with his principal foundation relying on the abhorrence of the current President, George W. Bush. His address’ to the nation focus on what the existent president is executing inequitably, and not upon his own strategies to improve the American Government. I said as much in my essay.

HOWEVER, If it came down to it, and the only choices I had were Dean or Bush, and noone else, I would chose Bush. I find Deans conduct preposterous and with the evident lack of discipline that Dean retains, it’s a phenomenon how he got to become a presidential aspirant. He knows nearly nothing of many issues, including the mainstream ones such as state-to-state gun laws (Brady, the rep of NRA stated this in an interview with Boston Globe), and all of Dean’s declarations are open ended and without true resoluteness.

[/Dean rant]

Anyway, all said and done. I am a southerner (though not by birth). I do not favor Bush at all, and plan on voting for Clark. That is all.

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I couldn't agree more. I am from Oklahoma which as everyone knows always votes Republican, no contest. But the majority of people I know/my friends (I live in Oklahoma City, the biggest city in Oklahoma), would not vote for bush, under no circumstances. It is not necessarily that we are all democrats, just intelligent . But the thread starter has a point with most southern places. In oklahoma, if you go anywhere outside of a fairly large city's city limits, you are in religious, republican, war-mongering, bush-supporting territory.

I do dislike the pic that smokeape put up though, because it draws out the southern-stereotype that is not true in alot of cases.
Oklahoman by birth, Oklahoman at heart, but in no way a "Southerner".

I love America with all my heart, all 50 states included, well except Mississippi kidding, but that is the precise reason why I want G.W.Bush out of the White House along with his Cabinet, to spare this beautiful nation anymore of his religous sermons, foreign policy bumbling, corporate fatcat benefactors and need I get started on his articulation as president He must work real hard at pronouncing his words to not stutter in his speeches, keep trying Bush you'll finally speak properly one day like a U.S. president should do in front of the people. I am ashamed to even here him speak at times. His speech has nothing to do with the South by the way, after all Lyndon B. Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Edwards to name a few politicians are all from there and they all sound better, its the person not the accent.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King The Axis of Evil

I dont see Karl Rove in there

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Originally posted by biznology Well technically you wouldnt have 'an America' without: Canada, USA, Mexico, Latin America, and all of South America... they are all "america" you know|

Not the same America I'm speaking of.

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Originally posted by biznology hmm...give me some more information as to where free speech is protected, but not certain *types* of free speech? we may be in some form loudmouthed, liberal, Northerners - but i dont think that should limit our free speech|

With freedom of speech comes responsibility, I read it in American Government last year. I'll have to pull the book out again, if I can find it. But, with every freedom comes a responsibility. If you know what I mean. Going out and being immature,calling people names,and being rude with your mouth isn't being responsible, you can get in trouble for shooting your mouth off when you shouldn't.

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quote:

Originally posted by priveye03 I couldn't agree more. I am from Oklahoma which as everyone knows always votes Republican, no contest. But the majority of people I know/my friends (I live in Oklahoma City, the biggest city in Oklahoma), would not vote for bush, under no circumstances. It is not necessarily that we are all democrats, just intelligent . But the thread starter has a point with most southern places. In oklahoma, if you go anywhere outside of a fairly large city's city limits, you are in religious, republican, war-mongering, bush-supporting territory. I do dislike the pic that smokeape put up though, because it draws out the southern-stereotype that is not true in alot of cases. Oklahoman by birth, Oklahoman at heart, but in no way a "Southerner".

I agree with you there man. I've known very few people my age who support Bush where I live.

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