quote:

Originally posted by b1_ Congratulations. As I said above, spoilt rich kid is just how you're coming across, to me any way. To tell you the truth, you're not making a lot of sense to me now. I think we agree mostly - I don't want some dole bludger demanding my tax dollars either, but I see the need for hospitals and schools, and the need to ensure "dole bludgers" don't starve; they're not all fat hippy males needing drug money; some are single mothers needing to keep their children alive. Surely you're not advocating letting them die in the street? Once again I'm telling you that if you think all you need to know about how the democrat party works is that hen story then you are naive. Perhaps you didn't mean it literally?

No, I didn't mean it to be taken that literally. Perhaps we aren't seeing eye to eye on that front which is why we had our little train wreck debate. The title of the thread was merely an expression I borrowed from another book that was published years ago. It was merely meant to point out the simplicity with which the story spelled out the merits of personal responsibility and individual effort.

I realize that there are people in society that for some reason or another aren't as capable as others (Maybe they're crippled, retarded, or simply destitute). Fortunately for them, there is a welfare system in place whereby they can get a helping hand. I do however take issue with an entire class of people who demand that they are entitled to something they had no hand in producing simply because they want what the other person has, but without contributing to the input. Even worse when you have politicians like Weasley Clark running around wanting to eliminate federal income tax on the lower 50% of income earners while raising the burden even more on the most productive members of society (Yeah, they're rich, and yeah, there are some who probably don't deserve all of their good fortune, but for the most part the most successful people are responsible for their own success). It bothers me that so many people want the exception to be the rule.

Seriously. 50% of voters not paying taxes plays right into this famous quote by Alexander Tyler:

quote:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by dictatorship."

And further, he postulated:

quote:

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back again to bondage."

Kind of makes you think.

Last edited by Shakka on Feb-21-2004 at 13:25

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Oh fuck that. You're all trying to read into it and make stupid assumptions to justify your flawed personal philosophies. All the story is saying is that people who take it upon themselves to be personally responsible for their own destinies are in control of their own happiness and they owe nothing to those who choose to be lazy and who want to get by on someone else's buck. It's more a commentary on the issue of class warfare and the liberal rally cry of reallocation of wealth from those who created it to those who didn't do jack shit to earn it. In the end the hen chose to accept the way society worked by going on strike (much like Atlas Shrugged if you nitwits ever learned how to read anything above your 7th grade trigonometry book). And Democrats/"progressives" do push a socialist agenda, they just don't want you to know it. Who ultimately owns you? If you've got any pride, you know that YOU own yourself and that only YOU are ultimately responsible for your own fate in this world. If you can't deal with it and want to hand your rights over to your "benevolent" government, then so be it, but tell me this: Where will you get your tax credits from when the "rich" people decide that they're sick of your leeching and stop producing? What would you do then if you lived in a bankrupt society with nobody to blame except your own lazy selves? Personally, I find it offensive to know that I'm paying tax dollars to support your theiving, entitlement believing, second-handing looters. Furthermore, I can only assume that you guys would like to be "rich" and successful yourselves? How on earth do you ever plan to achieve success and personal wealth if the only way you think that's attainable is by stealing it from the "rich" people who actually created the wealth in the first place? Isn't it hypocritical for you to criticize rich people simply because you aren't rich, but so badly want to be rich?

No need to get offensive.

I can respect your personal philosophy, but it's just that I also care about things like education, children, and the environment (which are human rights/human health issues).

Bush has now proposed logging the Grand Canyon.


As for the tax issue, three quarters of independent voters said their taxes went up or they saw no effect due to Bush's tax cuts in the latest CBS poll:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=162680

My parents are in the upper middle income bracket, and their local taxes actually went up because of Bush's tax cuts.

Also your assumption that all people on welfare are taking advantage of the system is false, but I agree with Occrider about having checks & balances. I think with welfare reform, we've taken a good step in that direction.

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Last edited by DaveSZ on Feb-21-2004 at 14:05

Here We Go Again: Bush Exaggerates Tax Cuts
The President can’t keep his figures straight. And most people are getting less than he implies.

February 20, 2004
Modified: February 20, 2004


http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=145


If you have ten homeless guys in a soup kitchen and Bill Gates walks in the room, the "average income" of that room increases dramatically. Bush is using this trick in justifying his tax "cuts" to the entirety of the American public.

He's clearly not as stupid as his detractors seem to think.

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