quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew on the other hand you can see it like this, europeans have the freedom to choose (almost) whatever they want when it comes to healthcare, school etc, without the limitation of your private economy. but sure low taxes means that you are the land of freedom, for some, but not for all.

It's not "more freedom," but a philosophical decision that European nations have made for equality over freedom (liberty). This is the classic tradeoff in any Western economy, and every nation is at a different place on the scale.

Lower taxation and fewer regulations mean more freedom in that the government does not restrict you from achieving on your own, which is precisely what personal freedom concerns. Whereas other nations are more restrictive of the advancement of citizens (taxes, etc.) to the benefit of others, promoting equality.

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FLUSHED THE JOHNS!

Last edited by imokruok on Apr-07-2004 at 18:43

It's funny how you're european views on freedom are so skewed that you think feedom only equals freedom of the press/speach (media). It's so much more then that.

I'm well aware that European TV and Radio, and other media is more free then American media, but that is only one part of freedom. Until you've studied the American government, and it's founding concepts you cannot argue with this.

The American form of government IS the best form of government ever created. Yes, it still has corruption, but for the size of the country, nothing in history has ever come close.

quote:

Originally posted by FuzzyGreen I'm well aware that European TV and Radio, and other media is more free then American media, but that is only one part of freedom.

yet we live under censur with only liberal biased media...

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok It's not "more freedom," but a philosophical decision that European nations have made for equality over freedom (liberty). This is the classic tradeoff in any Western economy, and every nation is at a different place on the scale. Lower taxation and fewer regulations mean more freedom in that the government does not restrict you from achieving on your own, which is precisely what personal freedom concerns. Whereas other nations are more restrictive of the advancement of citizens (taxes, etc.) to the benefit of others, promoting equality.

guess we just simply have differnt views on what freedom really is then

Come on FuzzyGreen - give us an example of European censorship. Otherwise, at least have the decency of admitting that you were wrong and were just stirring shit.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew on the other hand you can see it like this, europeans have the freedom to choose (almost) whatever they want when it comes to healthcare, school etc, without the limitation of your private economy.

Socialized medicine IS NOT freedom. Actually it is exactly the opposite. You actually lack freedom in this area. I have access to the best healthcare in the world (thanks to Stanford medical center) because I *choose* to obtain a job that provides the best medical insurance. THAT IS FREEDOM.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Come on FuzzyGreen - give us an example of European censorship. Otherwise, at least have the decency of admitting that you were wrong and were just stirring shit.

Well personally i think fuzzygreen's argument is a pile of crap but I can't resist! Heehee!

http://www.newsdesigner.com/archives/2004_03.php (scroll 1/3 of the way down)

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Retro ...

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Come on FuzzyGreen - give us an example of European censorship. Otherwise, at least have the decency of admitting that you were wrong and were just stirring shit.

I didn't mean media censorship, I meant lack of freedoms due to your socialism and "one-world" views.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew imo europe seems much freeer than USA.

It isn't,Trust me.

America is very free, But, With freedom comes responsibility.(In reply to your "story" Trancaholic.)

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~Nessa

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Come on FuzzyGreen - give us an example of European censorship. Otherwise, at least have the decency of admitting that you were wrong and were just stirring shit.

Ok, this one's easy. In France, Oriana Fallaci's book "The Rage and the Pride" was 'taken to court,' where the court actually heard arguments on whether to censor or ban her book. The book was not banned, but the French, Swiss, and Austrians have frequently had actual cases in court to determine whether a book will be allowed to be published within the country. One book on bin Laden has been placed on hold while the government investigates the plaintiff's claims. Yes, the government.

"Hate speech" in many countries has also been banned, while in the US, the government believes that what constitutes "hate" is not a matter for the government to be deciding with respect to speech. As I mentioned before, neo-Nazi and far-right groups have been censored by their governments, mainly in France and Germany. They must print their materials in the US, and base their websites here. (And when Iranians set up foreign broadcasting organizations to preach democracy to their country...they don't go to Europe. They do it from the US - why? The broadest speech protections.)

Canada, by the way, is on the way to making parts of the Bible hate speech, as people use scripture to speak out against homosexuality.

In Britain, defamation and libel laws are so strong that even moderately divisive books and articles must be run through legal departments before being published -- a de facto censorship under the law.

And the list goes on...even though this was not necessarily the point that fuzzygreen was trying to make.

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FLUSHED THE JOHNS!

quote:

Originally posted by WhoaNellie1487 It isn't,Trust me.

What the hell?

This is getting highly aggravating. For once, just once, back up what you say. I've never seen you actually articulate your position properly, or back up what you say with a logical argument and/or sources and examples. You just announce that something is the case, usually with a "trust me" added on, then apparently think that you've made a good point. FFS, if it isn't, cite examples.

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