Arab Unity and Democracy - a threat to US interests
| quote: | Originally posted by Yoepus
Please point out my racism. I might not be as "politically correct" as you would like, but I don't think I am being racist.
I am simply stating that Arabs (and yes I am generalizing here on purpose) aren't very educated.
I just think that your racist against all Jews envious of all their nobel prizeses  
Great, so now what you are basically telling me is that the Arabs have almost no nobel prize winners. Thanks for reinforcing our point 
Also when I was generalizing Arabs, I didn't specify religion. However, I do believe Lebanon, before its civil war did have a substantially higher living quality than its fellow Arab neighbors.
Of course, its always someone else fault. Its never ever your own fault. I agree 100% I just stole thousands of dollars via tax evasion, but its ok I blame the government for oppressing me in the first place
Ok please help me understand your logic. Democracy in the Arab world is a threat to US and Israeli interest why? Because when the Arabs are in control of their own oil, they won't sell it the USA and Israel? What will they do then, keep it all to themselves? 
Might want to work on that theory a bit.
Now heres my primary counter argument.
If it is Israel and the USA primary that have repressed Arab society into its ignorance, than how come we see that in the very areas that Israel and the USA are involved in that you have the highest level of educated Arabs and liberties?
In Israel, Arabs today are extremlly well-off and educated compared to their counterparts around Arabia. Even in the Occupied territories, before the dictatorship of Yasser Arafat was installed (and this is one incident I will admit there was an Israel/USA appointed dictator) the prosperity, education, and liberty levels of Palestinains was much better off than their cousins in Arab nations.
The USA hasn't been very involved in the middle east. However its recent expedition into Iraq promises the middle east its first true Arab democracy. Currently Iraqis enjoy some of the highest liberties among Arabs, with free access education, health, power, equal rights, and soon to enjoy sufferage for women and men.
Perhaps your "intellectuals" are doing a positive thing for Arab democracy. But I can't see a more prospering, positive movement for Arab liberty than the current USA led project in Iraq.
If it doesn't suceed, it will be a great tradegy, and the biggest step back to democracy and liberty in the middle east, not the biggest triumph for it. Even the enemies of the USA admit that. |
You have many well educated Arabs all over the world. You shouldn't be evaluating them on how many Nobel Prizes Arabs have won. That's very very stupid. Basically you're saying that Arabs haven't won as many Nobel Prizes as Jews; therefore Arabs aren't very educated.
Illan's stats spoke of the Global Islamic Population but only listed Arabs. What about all the Muslims who are non-Arab? They were not included in the stats. Maybe if they were, there would be more Muslim names on that list. And if there isn't, you still have to remember that the majority of the world's Muslims live in less-developed countries. I also want you to know that many Arabs and Muslims have complained of bias against them in Western societies when it comes to evaluating them and their acheivements. I don't know the legitimacy of it, but I hear it a lot.
I would like to point out that Arabs have contributed immensely to the world. The father of Algebra was an Arab. Much of modern medicine came from Arab innovation in the past. There's a lot out there that exists today because of previous Arab contribution. The culture and the Islamic religion aren't the main problem in the lack of development and democracy in the Middle East. Tribalism is a factor, and so is integration of religion and state in Islam. But these aren't the only factors involved.
Intellectual movements in the Middle East are nothing new. Democracy is not alien to the Arabs. They know what it is and crave it. But in order for democracy to prevail, freedom of speech must be enacted. Consider this:
Any talk against the oppressive state is silenced, usually with a haunting disappearance or a simple deportation.
State leaders are opposed to democratic reform. Demonstrations have taken place, and have been quelled violently. Human rights and education are victim to the state. Wouldn't want to educated people too much. People must be subjected to a bubble. I've experienced this myself when I lived in the UAE. I was in a bubble. Everytime I go back, I feel it. Something difficult to explain but you can feel it. It hurts.
Arabs sit on the wealthies part of the world. Like you said-a gold mine. But do they own the gold mine? The state owns the gold mine. Not the people. I don't have a say where the oil goes. Neither does any Arab I've ever met. Only the Sheikhs and Dictators have a say. What if I had a say? Do you think I would vote for oil to be traded with the United States? Maybe a little. And this goes for millions of Arabs in the Middle East. There are those intellectuals who claim that if Arabs controlled the oil, they would rule the world.
Consider Sykes-Picot of 1916. Separated the Arab world into different countries literally with a ruler on a map. Separation caused a lot of harm to unity. Many nationalist movements at unification were attempted and failed. Nasser was a nationalist, he was defeated by Israel in 1967. He failed. Israel is a dagger in the Middle East. It has helped America prevent unification of Arabs. If you look at Arab politics of the 20th century, you will notice that American interference was a main cause of the failure of these movements. In fact, a US security document in 1956 points out that Arab nationalism is a threat to US interests. The US would bribe countries that served its interests and other countries didn't want a tarnished reputation. Different Arab countries had different interests as the US started to interfere. Unification is a dream. It's referred to as the Arab dream. But at the same time, Arabs these days would rather talk about whether Jordanians are better than Lebanese or Syrians better than Emaratis. Separation is our weakness.
The intellectuals are fighting. A lot of this fighting is taking place in the western world where freedom of speech is much easier.
Who's funding the oppressive leaders of the Arab world? Who put many of these people in power? Do you know that the people didn't put these kings in power? Who did? They didn't do it on their own.
A few more things:
Palestinians under Israeli occupation before 1993 were NOT better off than Arabs in many Arab countries. Stop deluding yourself. Occupation is not freedom. Concentration camps are NOT freedom.
Iraqis right now are in a state of chaos. All Iraqis I know, whether they were pro war or anti war, are now all anti war and hate USA with a vengeance. Iraq is a failed expedition. It's a failure, face it. You can't impose democracy on a people with a war. I read what's happening in Iraq and I feel sad. Very sad.
And perhaps you haven't heard of the intellectual movement, that's BECAUSE THEY ARE SUPPRESSED BY THE SAME THUGS AMERICA SUPPORTS. That's the message. That's the point of my post. Stop supporting these leaders and let democracy flow! The more you suppress democracy, the more Islamic the movement gets, the more nationalism turns to Islamic fundamentalim. People get fed up. They turn to extremist measures. Study the trends and the 20th century history of the Arab people and American influence. This topic requires a lot of education to debate. I don't know if I will post on this again.
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Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization: "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."
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