I know quite a few lads in the forces or people who know people in the forces and they all say the Americans are absolute psychos. They dont trust them one bit. It seems that the British join the army for a job, a career and are professional...the Americans join cos to them it is a game...

Fuzzy Green, I really hope you or anyone you know dont die in the next terrorist attack, but to be perfectly honest, with some of the shit you come out with and the way you view other races, nationalities and cultures, I think you'd probably deserve it...

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Originally posted by Dervish But please either explain or pull back your comment about either the Iraqis being sub-human or having the US army belive them to be so is a good idea.

Ok, fine, maybe being "sub-human" is a little harsh and I don't want to come off as a Jewish hating nazi.

The Iraqi's are not anyway, but the terrorists we are fighting are.

I was just trying to make a point that the original liberal article is doing nothing but showing a viewpoint that is biased against Americans and what they are trying to accomplish in Iraq.

Yeah I know exactly what you mean George. Everyone I've spoken to says the Americans just want to "play with their toys". For example using Apaches at low level. Apparently there is no reson to do it. The Britsh found in N.I. that to use helicopters effectivly with minimal danger you fly high and fast. The Americans love to swoop around over the buildings. No tactical value just "looks cool". High danger, less visablity and utterly pointless. And everyone of them had storys, each differnt I might add, about the Americans acting completly inapropriatly.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Fuzzy Green, I really hope you or anyone you know dont die in the next terrorist attack, but to be perfectly honest, with some of the shit you come out with and the way you view other races, nationalities and cultures, I think you'd probably deserve it...

Geeze, look at who is coming off as psyco. Did I say anthing about any other race or culture? The only people I have a problem with is the terrorists and their sympathizers (Cyrus King).

Ok just for a wee while try not branding things for example "libral" "good" "bad". The article voices concerns, the concerns of an educated british officer. Who is currently there. I don't think any of us here are in a postion to tell him what the situation is like.

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen The war has reached my front door. If I was capable of being in the army fighting I would be, but unfortunately I am disabled and have to rely on using my brain power. I am not a product of right-wing propaganda because very little of it exists over here any more (except on AM radio). But I am the product of an expensive University education, love for the history channel, and a hard work ethic.

Firstly, how exactly war has reached your front door? Are bombs being dropped near your home? Has any relative of you been killed recently while in combat?

Oh yes, and unfortunately you are disabled... Sorry, but i don't believe you. I think you would either run or panic when bullets started flying over you. Nah, i think you wouldn't have the guts to join the army anyway. Now about your use of brain power... it seems to me that your brain is the only thing disabled. Expensive university education... look where it's got you - calling a different culture sub-human - it seems you are a waste of money to your parents.

I recently heard on the news that many tv stations decided not to show the images of the american bodies being dragged over the streets, so that public opinion does not get shocked because of that, creating a political storm. Now how liberal is that?

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen Geeze, look at who is coming off as psyco. Did I say anthing about any other race or culture? The only people I have a problem with is the terrorists and their sympathizers (Cyrus King).

Like I said, I really hope your not killed in the next attack (cos believe me, with people with views like yours, like your government for a start, there WILL be another big attack), but you call Iraqis sub-human and that makes you scum...

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Originally posted by Dervish And everyone of them had storys, each differnt I might add, about the Americans acting completly inapropriatly.

That's funny, I've been told so many stories and even seen it played in movies about the British army acting "properly" at the wrong times. Nothing is "proper" about war.

BTW - Apache pilots are highly trained and adhere to strict rules and codes of conduct. Low flight is often used to avoid SAM's, radar tracking, and to take advantage of the Apaches terrain following radar. This is part of their training and is completely appropriate.

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Originally posted by Spankster Link To Article Senior British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate. One senior officer said that America's aggressive methods were causing friction among allied commanders and that there was a growing sense of "unease and frustration" among the British high command. The officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said part of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the Nazi expression for "sub-humans"............ To read the rest check the link above.

firstly let me correct you, it was a british commander's opinion that americans view iraqis as "sub-humans". this does not meant that the americans actually view it this way. In fact, you'd have a hard time conviencing me, let alone proving to me that americans do indeed view the iraqi general population as sub-human. although i do want to add that those iraqis who participate in targeting of human civilians, hostage taking and mutilating dead humans are sub-human themselves.

anyways to say that the US use overwhelming force is not surprising. It should not come as a surprise that europeans hold a different opinion on warfare than the americans do. afterall, most european countries, including the UK are considerably weaker military than the US - this would of course alter their strategies. One who has force is more willing to use it then somebody who doesnt. It is widely known that this overwhelming force is one of the tennents of modern american warfare, and to which has shown considerable accomplishments.

when you look at Americas past accomplishments you can see that "heavy handed" initial bursts of power and force have led to quick resolution of warfare and allowed for diplomacy to take over. here are the successes:

gulf war 1 - america invaded iraq with all its might right away and drew to a quick resolution of the war.

Afghanistan - a heavy dose of arieal bombardment led to the quick victory of the taliban and allowed for peacekeepers to enter quickly

gulf war 2 - american reached and conquered baghdad in lightning speed and replaced the saddam regimn quickly in order to set up a new governing councel

the following are examples of slow military warfare that have led to unfavorable results

Haiti - American troops played a more peacekeeping rule instead of a more forceful role which led to the recent rioting and overthrowing of the current "president"

Somalia - small surgical troop activities led to the somalian warlords to defeat the american forces. this would probably not have been the case had american troops used overwhelming force.

i would also add the failure of european forces to stop the warfare in yugoslavia and their request for strong american force (95% of bombing raids were done with american airplanes)

to top this off the current restrictions on american force in fullajah and other isurgent towns in iraq are probably the source of why these fights are continuing. the truce now between the american forces and the insurgents only aids those that are weaker. furthermore, it shows that the insurgents are actually succeeding agianst the american army - that is something that has profound effects all over the world. other militias will use this case as reason to rise agianst american forces. indeed that is the case today:

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Afghan warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, one of America's most-wanted men, has urged his compatriots to rise up against the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan. Hekmatyar calls for an Afghan uprising in a competitive spirit with Iraq. He welcomed the uprising by supporters of the Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, who have been battling U.S. forces in Iraq. http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...tan_hekmatyar_1

i think it is time for the rest of the world to suck it up and grow a pair.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Like I said, I really hope your not killed in the next attack (cos believe me, with people with views like yours, like your government for a start, there WILL be another big attack), but you call Iraqis sub-human and that makes you scum...

Again, I didn't call the Iraqi's sub-human, I'm calling the terrorists sub-human.

Anyway Fuzzy I think maybe I and some other perhaps misintrepreted what you ment. When you said Iraqis you ment terroists yeah? But I would say even the "terrorists" are just trying to get a occupying force out of their country. However misguided thats what they are trying to do. To be honest half the Iraqi police force and army are probebly the least altruistic in their actions and have the dirtist hands. Now I have mates there and I can say that. You can't just see things in black and white.

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