quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo the story is crap bcause its the only one making the thread topic's claims (quite poorly at that) I've found no less than other stories with the same guy interviewed...fuckin nevermind later

You must have done a hugely extensive search.... try "Suhaib al-Baz" on google, see what happens.....

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quote:

Originally posted by arctic Whenever there's a thread that deals with something an American or Americans have done - you often seem to call the posters 'haters' or 'brain washed propagandists'. Am I the only one who's starting to notice a pattern of denial here? I may be off the mark here - but to me it looks like that you don't think it's true because there are Americans involved.

precisely

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Originally posted by MarkT people don't "hate America". people hate arrogance, naivity, and blind allegiance to one's country and government. keep in mind the Int'l Red Cross have publicly stated that they have reported mistreatment from long before these pics and videos surface. Rumsfield himself has seem more pics than have been released, and he has lost his usual brash, arrogant attitude. HE KNOWS THEY ARE FUCKED...and has admitted that he hasn't even viewed the videos yet. http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...ol=968793972154 face it...the U.S. military is not 100% made up of open-minded, educated Americans...it's got a hefty share of small town, small minded, intollerent Americans who view other countries and their inhabitants as "inferior". If the U.S. administration is admitting to this much...imagine what the extent of the "truth" might be, hmmmm? I don't hate America...I hate the arrogance and short-sightedness of the Bush administration who actually thought they would walk in, mop up Saddam, and turn Iraq into some shining beacon of Western democracy in the Middle East. I hate that so many Americans refuse to accept that Bush et al. were short sighted. I hate that so many Americans think that we hate America when we criticize the U.S. gov't. I hate that so many Americans respond to this criticism with a reply of "oh, typical...you're Canadian" because they are incapable of debating the issues themselves...

You have said it best! PEOPLE WHO CRITIC A COUNTRY DONT HATE IT, OFTEN THEY WANT TO SEE THE BEST COME OUT OF IT..BUT WHEN SOMEONE CRITIQUES AMERICA AND ANOTHER SAYS THATS WORNG IS LIKE SAYING THEY ARE DO EVERYTHING 100% CORRECT

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"[The prisoner's] hands are clasped behind his neck and he is leaning against the door to a cell, contorted with terror, as the dogs bark a few feet away," Hersh writes. "In another, taken a few minutes later, the Iraqi is lying on the ground, writhing in pain, with a soldier sitting on top of him, knee pressed to his back. Blood is streaming from the inmate's leg."

SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME on you AMERICA... SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME on you AMERICA... SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!!!

Surely you mean shame on the soldiers involved in the abuse? Or are you assuming that because American soldiers did this, that the US public must approve of their actions?

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Not one person thinks that this abuse is good, or even acceptable, at least who I've encountered. Trying to transform that into a condemnation of America, though, is a non sequitur of Bush-like proportions.

Borderline troll topic IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME on you AMERICA... SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!!!

I am sure if all of america was kneeling on this guys back we wouldn't be worried about a little blood from his leg.


I hope you were being sarcastic though.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME on you AMERICA... SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!!!

No. You've got it all wrong. That crazy naked man is taunting those poor, defenseless dogs. Animal cruelty.

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quote:

Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l unfortunately yeah war crimes have always existed .....i wouldn't say it's common that's too horrible

Well, you'd probably be hard-pressed to think of any major conflict in history whereattrocities or some form of human-rights abuse did not occur. Other than that I agree with all you say.

... this post is a bit OT, but this thread is rapidly turning to shite anyway.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME on you AMERICA... SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!!!

You are correct Cyrus shame indeed, however take note, as pathetic as these atrocious actions are on the part of Americans in Iraq it is interesting to note that it can be revealed, examined, dealt with and "hopefully" stopped from ever taking place again. That however cannot be said about Russia in Chechnya, Cuba, Iran, the numerous atrocities throughout Africa and even the hypocracy of some Middle East governments who lean on the crutch of anti-American public opinion while abusing their own people as well. Makes one wonder doesn't it. I am glad to see that the U.S. is held to a higher standard than those places on human rights, now if the Defence Secretary had any decency he would step aside to show that from the top down the U.S. is better than these behaviors, but in the Bush admin of course he will not, thus the United States shall remain the biggest hypocrite when speaking of human rights, even Cuba can laugh at us and say who are you to talk about human rights, What a Shame!

It should be a shame on humanity as well that actions on the part of the U.S. in Iraq are a small part of an endemic problem in many other parts of the world, where is the Shame on that Cyrus, or are they less significant because they do not proport to be representative of human rights, justice and dignity. Shame on us all, for humanity is hypocrisy itself.

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Last edited by NYCTrancefan on May-10-2004 at 15:00

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo your not sufee_b either I've never implied being canadian a reason for being anything this is stupid the thread topic is shite the ITV story is ass sufee_b is a hater and a propagandist get off his nuts

I never implied that you implied anything either...I was making general statements that were off topic from the thread title, but relevant to the debate on the Iraq situation in general...sue me, I'm choosing this thread to rant and present my general opinions.

You saying "the ITV story is ass" is just as ignorant as someone who blindly believes it to be 100% fact.

The UN is also stating that they suspect children have been abused at the prison...the Red Cross is also maintaining that the condition of prisoners was intentionally withheld and misrepresented when they visited. Neither group really has a vested interest in lying and risking damage to their credibility as global organizations simply to spite the coalition...