Im a minority....im left handed

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EXACTLY psychosematica

Whats interesting is that the same people who fought against segregation in the 60s are the same ones who want it now. The only difference is that this time they would be the ones now benefitting.

I think there are pros and cons to the two sides in this case. Really hard to judge these kinds of issues.

I know in the US, where I go to school, a major issue nowadays concerns the problems going on with "Affirmative Action". I guess basically if you want to improve equality and diversity, you accept students based on ethnic minority quotas. However, minorities complain that they are then being accepted not based on their academic merits but rather, mainly because of their race (i.e. University of Southern California which has something like 25% Asian population). On the flip side, if schools don't use "affirmative action" they accept students solely based on their academic merits. And consequently, in areas like "the South" where it is statistcally shown that African Americans make up the majority of the lower end of the socio-economic range, there are students who may be qualified but simply do not have the money to afford college. And you get a school where the minority population is significantly lower than the local statistic.

So like I was saying earlier, sometimes even if the use of racial stats benefits people, some people don't like it, as seen with USC students who actually started boycotting the school after being accepted and finding out that "affirmative action" was instilled in the application process.

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Originally posted by starsearcher Canada has also rediculous immigration rules...no wonder US is pissed at Canada...the immigration laws just make no sense. It's basically saying - Smart educated people from developed nations, wait in line and maybe if youre lucky and pass all the test we'll take you...uneducated people from the third world that don't have much to offer - please come in! Unfortunately I've witnessed that with my own eyes too many times

This is just not true, don't know where you got this from. If you go investigate the "formula" used to give prospective immigrants "points", it takes into account all kinds of things such as facility with English|french, number of kids (Canada's future), money (capital to be invested in Canada), and education.

It is true that the education part of the formula is not always what it should be. For instance, despite the big doctor shortage, being a physician will NOT help you get immigration, it has no "points". My aunt from Iran is a well known Oncological Gyenecologist in Tehran (with subspecialty fellowship from Australia) and she is immigrating to Canada as we speak, but had to show money with proof of investment in business in Canada to qualify, rather than based on her medical expertise!

But, for the most part, it probably makes sense to take into account the various factors in deciding which immigrants will be able to contribute to the future of Canada. A couple with several small children but no directly relevant education is much more valuable to the future of Canada as that's several children who will grow up to become productive members of society at a time when all the rest of us will be struggling to support the huge senior citizen population. So these things are not that simple to judge.

As for equal opportunity, being an immigrant myself, I agree that it is reverse discrimination. But the problem is that unless you somehow increase the number of minority people in positions of influence, the current inequality will probably never fix itself, because as humans we are inherently NOT unbiased. Complicated issue for sure.

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but had to show money with proof of investment in business in Canada to qualify, rather than based on her medical expertise!

exactly...I don't see this being a necessary requirement...and you'll be surprised about the rules...There is a huge immigration wave from Iran here nowadays...but it's much harder to get in for many other citizens of developed European nations.

Besides i'm an immigrant as well and I know what my mom and I had to go through compared to some of the others.
At our citizenship ceremonies 70% of the people didn't even speak any english!!!!!!!!! WTF is that??? we had to pass tests to even get in!

And what you described may have been true for you and for many others...but I don't see how you can explain the many immigrants that come here and live in near poverty from sri lanka and etc crammed 100 into 1 house . Surely they didn't have investment, education, or even the ability to speak english...I just heard some bad stories about that

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Originally posted by starsearcher exactly...I don't see this being a necessary requirement...and you'll be surprised about the rules...There is a huge immigration wave from Iran here nowadays...but it's much harder to get in for many other citizens of developed European nations. Besides i'm an immigrant as well and I know what my mom and I had to go through compared to some of the others. At our citizenship ceremonies 70% of the people didn't even speak any english!!!!!!!!! WTF is that??? we had to pass tests to even get in! And what you described may have been true for you and for many others...but I don't see how you can explain the many immigrants that come here and live in near poverty from sri lanka and etc crammed 100 into 1 house . Surely they didn't have investment, education, or even the ability to speak english...I just heard some bad stories about that

well, there is a difference b/w someone claiming asylum as a refugee and others just seeking immigration (i.e. from developed countries). separate set of rules apply to each - the latter, the so-called point system and the former - canadian immigration laws (as however flawed they may be) and international refugee law (i.e. non-refoulement - the prohibition to send an asylum seeker back to the country of origin if there is a 'possibility' of persecution based on 5 specified grounds, or a 'possibility' of torture, inhumane treatment or a threat to life and personal security.

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Last edited by disko-kandi on May-12-2004 at 17:49

^^^ Yeah I guess...but it makes no sense sometimes, it's discrimination again -> what makes one person a refugee and another an immigrant? Why should this one be taken and the other spend so much time and money on the process...that's what i mean.

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Originally posted by starsearcher ^^^ Yeah I guess...but it makes no sense sometimes, it's discrimination again -> what makes one person a refugee and another an immigrant? Why should this one be taken and the other spend so much time and money on the process...that's what i mean.

because one is in genuine need of protection whereas the other may just seek immigration for other reasons. i understand your point, but you can't compare the two. you need to deal with each individually.

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Well define need for protection...I don't think you need to be chased by someone or have your life threatened to be classified as a refugee...as far as i understand you can just arrive at the airport and say i'm claiming refugree status...

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Originally posted by starsearcher Well define need for protection...I don't think you need to be chased by someone or have your life threatened to be classified as a refugee...as far as i understand you can just arrive at the airport and say i'm claiming refugree status...

you're mixing up the two concepts of an asylum seeker/ refugee and an immigrant:

here something to read up on:
http://www.unhcr.ch/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home?page=PROTECT&id=3c0762ea4

Check the Questions and Answers section especially


Article 1 of the 1951 International Refugee Convention defines a refugee as

A PERSON WHO IS OUTSIDE HIS/HER COUNTRY OF NATIONALITY OR HABITUAL RESIDENCE; HAS A WELL-FOUNDED FEAR OF PERSECUTION BECAUSE OF HIS/HER RACE, RELIGION, NATIONALITY, MEMBERSHIP IN A PARTICULAR SOCIAL GROUP OR POLITICAL OPINION; AND IS UNABLE OR UNWILLING TO AVAIL HIMSELF/ HERSELF OF THE PROTECTION OF THAT COUNTRY, OR TO RETURN THERE, FOR FEAR OF PERSECUTION.

that's the basis to work with.

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Gotcha....but i still think it's contraversial...IMO it's very easy to take advantage of this and I still don't think the system works properly. I'm sure there are some political/financial benefits involved for those who are running the show I highly doubt that a lot of the stuff that is done by the government is done purely for the benefit of Canada -- I guess we have enough governmental scandals going on now to look at.

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