Eugene i dont quite get what side Ur on?
Well well......Since i dont know the release dates of my trax i cant say that they are new....but they just keep coming and coming......
Some sound the same...some dont....I get alot from TA Single section and they are ussually all good.....arent they new?

Am i the only one to consider Flesh as a classic?

Uplifting trance wont die if ppl dont stop listening to it......
It seems like some ppl just think:
"No uplifting track will be produced cause they are all the same and they are out of ideas so i better move on to progressive"

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here,s my point, I'm on the run( moving house) so i will say it fast, If you don't want Trance to die, start buying not downloading, think about it?

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No one said trance is dying..it never will....but some ppl here thinks that Uplifting\Epic trance will die....I dont

I DL AND buy.........I Buy at least 1 CD every month......

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I don't get this bizarre attitude of having to try out and see if u like new music - am I gonna sit there and keep trying out progressive to see if I like it - no I'm fucking not - I hear enough of it in british clubs as warmup music for decent DJ's , and fucking hell it is so boring, me and my mates just sit there bored out of our brains til something fun comes on

and dont say its cos prog is not so obvious bla bla bla, I listen to my music extremely intensely and notice many little elements about tunes, i can tell whether a tune is well-produced etc.. and i think prog IS, but... I'm afraid it's gonna run out of ideas very soon - because there's nothing u can do in a prog tune, if u put too much into it, it becomes too "obvious" because obvious is bad as we all know!?! bollocks.. so then obvious tunes are "uncool" so prog producers cant do that... hahaha

i can see whats going on in a prog tune, but how can it compare to the rush of hearing an epic uplifting tune - when i go clubbing and listen to music, i wanna hear something exciting that makes my whole brain go crazy - prog just cant do that..

I never gave epic trance a chance EVER.. i just heard it and was so addicted.. I didnt need to sit there for days trying to get into it - I knew it was incredible as soon as I first heard it!!

And I'm not one of the guys who was a late-adopter - I was totally into proper epic melodic trance by mid97, before that it had been hard to find stuff i liked, but i had liked electronic music of most forms, and the more uplifting the better... i hated rock and indie etc.. because it made me feel depressed - similar to the feeling i get when hearing prog

and loads of DJ's are jumping onto the prog bandwagon - seb fontaine for instance is a prime example - in 99 he was playing melodic trance, and then suddenly at some point in 2000 he decided that it wasnt cool enough, and instantly started hating trance, and switched to funky and prog! what a pathetic moneygrabbing fucking shithead

i've always loved trance, and i always will do, i dont care if no1 else does :-p :-p

quote:

Originally posted by Rich i've always loved trance, and i always will do, i dont care if no1 else does :-p :-p

AGREED

quote:

Originally posted by Rich I never gave epic trance a chance EVER.. i just heard it and was so addicted.. I didnt need to sit there for days trying to get into it - I knew it was incredible as soon as I first heard it!!

Yep. Excellent point, Rich.

I agree with your entire post!

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Download all my EuroHardTrance traxx & learn more about me ("Kompulsor"):
www.kompulsor.com

Alright here's the deal.
I listen to different types of music for different reasons. Different moods demand different styles. I listen to eurotrance when I need something to chear me up. I listen to techno when I am pumped. I listen to house when I am in the mood for some soul southing... Different styles have their uses. Progressive music is great; it has it's purpose. I love sitting down for a few and listening to a sasha or digweed set. The problem I see is that these big name djs are becoming more trend followers than trend setters. I can tell you if every dj starts playing the same progressive sound it is going to get old FAST. Someone asked how many memorable euro-trance songs have been released in the past 2 years. Maybe lots maybe none, but how many memorable progressive songs have EVER been released? none really because thats the nature of the music. Yes it's different and unique and artistic (all arguable of course) but it is not memorable. So yes, it is sad to see a whole genre ruined because people need that.
And on a final note.. who gives a fuck what digweed says. He plays the music he likes to hear.. fine I just hope for his sake people continue to like his style or he is going to find himself out of a job.

ok, i'll say this much. people are losing interest in this genre because there are just too many wannabe's out there trying to make a name for themselves with simple, catchy tunes and then to top it off, they throw the track into the commercial wasteland to rake in the money. i won't name which artist/producer is doing this, but you and i know very well they do exist! its people like them who gives a bad reputation to our beloved music. i hear people call it "cheesy" and "candy kid's music" among other bad things. like they know any better. i wouldn't be surprised if they have never heard the best of the best tracks out there. if they did, i doubt they would ever say those things.

i remember listening to trance back in the 98/99 era and those tracks just felt like there was this complexity that i just can't describe. it made me feel all sorts of emotions that i wouldn't think i would get at the moment. it just didn't make sense for me to put a fat smile on. it didn't make sense when i felt the chills in my body during the buildup. it just didn't make sense when my eyes got watery. there was no compromise, it just hits you hard and fast. so fast you didn't even know wtf just happened to you.

most tracks nowadays, the ones that get spun a lot by most DJ's, just don't have that depth in it anymore. to me its nothing more than just a nice sounding melody accompanied by a dance beat. it lacks power, it lacks intensity and it lacks emotion. it doesn't make me feel it behind the synths.

of course there are still some gems from time to time such as

aeon - masterpiece of emotion
accadia - into the dawn (james holden remix)
drax & scott mac - sublime (darkstar remix)

but as a whole, uplifting trance, is just not what it used to be. don't get me wrong. i'm a HUGE uplifting trance freak and i would not give up on this genre until it gives up on me. as long as i can still find one gem out there in the masses of shit, atleast there is still one reason i should continue to listen to uplifting trance.

btw whats the deal with vocals these days? i know vocals have always played a part in trance, but they were always just accompanying the breakdowns and/or buildups. its very rare that they are the main focal point in trance tracks before but now its like the dominant force behind our trance. so many tracks released with vocals. especially full vocals with lyrics, verses, choruses and shit. is it because delerium - silence was such a hit, everyone started moving on with the vocals or what? personally, my preference is lose the vocals but thats just me. what do you all think of that?

well thats my 2 cents on this topic

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Last edited by Mark on Sep-08-2001 at 01:14

For God's sake let's not let Oakie, Jules, Digweed, Fontaine or Tong decide what music is worth listening to. They've *never* produced anything excellent/groundbreaking themselves and are merely hyped media-DJ-icons that could be topped by perhaps 1/3 of you average trance-DJ.

The day we start adapt our music style to some music-authority is the day we start regarding Kieslowsky's Three Colours as strokes of genious.

Eugene: I'm flattered by your comments. Your posts are constantly among the interesting ones as well. I may not agree, but at least I can see your point. Something that (IMO) only applies to about a handful of people here.

well to be fair didn't digweed produce heaven scent?
or unless you don't think this track was great.

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quote:

I never gave epic trance a chance EVER.. i just heard it and was so addicted.. I didnt need to sit there for days trying to get into it - I knew it was incredible as soon as I first heard it!!

That's because, like someone said before, epic has a more blatent sound - it's more obvious - so it's necessarily easier to get into. I guess the difference between epic and progressive is like the difference between orange juice and beer. Now I like orange juice, and I've liked it for a long time. It tastes sweet and is easy to get into. Beer on the other hand can taste a bit odd - a bit dry - when you first try it. But, as you become more accustomed to its taste, you enjoy it even more. It may not taste as sweet as orange juice, but you learn to enjoy it more than orange juice because you begin to appreciate the complexities in the drink, and once you've moved onto beer, there's no more drinking orange juice at parties. You've gone past it, you've evolved. And, for me anyway, it's the same thing with epic and progressive.

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I for one HAVE experienced the uniqueness, beauty, emotionality and magnificent power of epic/uplifting. Maybe I've heard some anthems that you haven't. That's why I'm extremely upset.

This is a common misconception: that just because someone moves onto progressive that they must have missed all the inherent beauty in epic trance the first time round. It doesn't work like that. I think this quote accurately sums up where I used to stand:

quote:

i remember listening to trance back in the 98/99 era and those tracks just felt like there was this complexity that i just can't describe. it made me feel all sorts of emotions that i wouldn't think i would get at the moment. it just didn't make sense for me to put a fat smile on. it didn't make sense when i felt the chills in my body during the buildup. it just didn't make sense when my eyes got watery. there was no compromise, it just hits you hard and fast. so fast you didn't even know wtf just happened to you.

Like I said before, I was heavily into trance for a period of about three years. It moved me in the same ways it moved all you guys. It was just such a powerful form of music, not just in terms of the sound of the synths but emotionally, the way it could move you. And I agree it was an incredibly effective genre until it died, probably about 12 months ago, of gross overkill. Now you Amercians have been sheltered from it a bit, but even here in Australia, where the club scene continues to try and break through into mainstream culture, trance was just everywhere. Clothing stores, the radio, TV. You couldn't escape it.

As a direct result of all this, the sound lost its original impact. All the tracks started to sound the same, lacking the abstract inspiration of the stuff from 98/99. It sounded cliched. All the meaning was lost, each track just sounded like a re-hash of all the others. Everyone continued to go for the big-synth sound of 98, but the moment had passed. The music was good for a while, but when you have all these artists going for exactly the same sound it gets very old very quickly.

Now some of you are criticising progressive music for not having the emotion of epic trance? Funny you should say that...... firstly, just take a look at the tracks that Turbo GS-R cited as modern day gems. Yep, I agree, they're brilliant tracks, but the second two are progressive tracks from progressive artists . Progressive, whether you want to agree with me or not, is capable of producing an incredibly wide range of emotions, where as epic trance can produce just one: that uplifting/euphoric sensation.

Just take a look at these progressive tracks, download them to understand what I'm talking about if you haven't heard them already. Contrast the uplifitng beauty of Accadia's Into The Dawn with the dark chaotic madness of Mark Shimmon's Dark Feelin (Mara Remix). The cold, chilling feel of Cass & Slide's Opera with the unquestionable beauty of Sasha's Xpander or the gritty, down to earth feel of Mutiny's The Virus. Contrast the infectious, high-energy beat of James Holden, with the churning, dark bass of Chab or the minimal, old-school beat of Timo Maas. The tech-house stylings of Pete Heller compared to the uplifting tech-trance of Max Graham. The variety is huge, the possibilities endless. For those who insist that progressive is uncapable of instilling the same emotion of epic, quite simply, you haven't learnt to appreciate it.

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a massive progressive vs epic dog-fight, I just want people to understand I - and a vast number of other people - are coming from. Don't tell me that I am wrong to move away from epic music, or that I'm only doing it because it's in vogue, because you would be wrong. I used to love it, and I moved away because, in my eyes (or should that be ears?) the music lost all its original impact and died a good many months ago. If you still wish to listen to it because it still holds that same impact for you then fine, it's up to you. Just don't tell me that you're the only once with the sensitivity to appreciate it properly and that the only reason I listen to progressive is because I think it's cool. Because that really is quite insulting.

Truth is, trance is starting to kick the bucket. The problem isn't anything inherent with the genre, it's the fault of the producers who cashed in on simple melodies and forgot the more complex backdrop melodies that late nineties epic held. And they refused to do something different. I think that's why so many people are holding dearly on to progressive trance, because its the first radically different thing to happen in trance. But now its absorbing epic with the kind of tracks that are so popular. I think progressive will run its popularity for maybe a year or two more, and then trance will be forced into a change or die situation.

Either, somebody will have to come along and make hard trance popular (Kimball Collins is fairly popular...but he doesn't hold the weight of say, Tiesto, Corstein or Oakenfold) and extend the life of trance, or it will die down into a side room genre like drum and bass. I think hard trance has the potential to be the next "big thing" in trance (and indeed the potential life blood of its existence) because its far more flexible as a subgenre than any other. If that doesn't happen, two things will replace trance. Progressive house in the club scene, as it is gaining popularity there now as well as prog house like those from labels like Nukleuz are getting popular in the party scene, and hard house straight up in the big party scene. Hard house? Yes. UK hard house is striking some momentum, and while hard house has always had a loyal (albeit somewhat small) following here in the US, there's a sort of new school hard house sound that incorporates the kind of energy and humor old skool hardcore had. Recycling old ideas into the new.

Inevitably, trance will be replaced as the in thing with electronic music, as genres have been before, but something ought to be done from the producers to extend the life and keep the genre viable for as long as possible.