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Originally posted by biznology the issue that also becomes, it is just that 100 years ago we didnt believe in electrons, now we believe them as fact. as intellect 'continues' what do we "really" know, and what do we just want to believe? sorry|

not sure what is your point? the basis of what we really know now is related to how much we can exceed what we really know before and now.

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Originally posted by u4ea:[soulstar] not sure what is your point? the basis of what we really know now is related to how much we can exceed what we really know before and now.

i see your double speak is speak-tastic!

basically what i meant is that we can mind-fuck each other all we want, but if you look at the 'progression' of knowledge over the past 100 years the 'jumps' seem less extreme. Things that were once proposterous, are now considered fact|

___________________
'That's like telling a Kodiak bear to stop fcking older men.'

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Originally posted by Lephaid It'd be interesting if everything in the world were only two minutes away...

DJ'ing expenses sure would go down, hell i won't charge as much, just so i could teleport there... imagine all the shows i could play. IN ONE NIGHT! sick!

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Originally posted by Flyboy217 This is an excellent philosophical question. Rephrase it this way: Suppose you were told that there was a 100% chance of success of getting through the teleporter safely. And suppose, as before, that you accepted a material reductionist view of the mind-- that is, that the mind is nothing but the byproduct of the brain's neurochemistry. Would you go through? This is very hard to answer "no" to, because of the implications... namely, that teleportation is identical to, say, walking. However, consider it another way: Suppose you walked into the first machine, then remote machine created a copy of you, and then the first copy was destroyed in some harmless fashion. No problem, right? But suppose the first machine accidentally didn't destroy your atoms. You would be alive and well in the first machine and the second. Then suppose the first machine realizes its mistake, and decides to slaughter you. Now "you" are dead. Where's the rub? The magic is in the details. Philosophically, this sounds perplexing and paradoxical... you would like to go through because there's no difference from walking, but the second argument shows that the copy is in some way not "you." So now what's the problem? It's in what's called the "no cloning theorem," which states that a quantum state CANNOT be replicated exactly while preserving the original. That is to say, the teleporter simply must destroy the original and create the "clone" simultaneously (atom by atom, that is). The problem is getting all the atoms to go at the same time. Spooky, ain't it?

that is actually very interesting!

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Originally posted by cistane Well, whatever the case may be...I'm sure the military can find an evil use for this technology like every other technology they have corrupted

Interesting point, yet totally flawed. The truth of the matter is, odds are the military funded the research that went into this discovery. In fact most advanced research that is not cosmological is usually funded by DARPA, why you ask, because they are evil, no. Its because DARPA is willing to take much greater risks on technology than a normal private company would. If you knew anything about research and the military you would know that almost everything you use was originally developed by the military and trickled down.


Mizzuno

Interesting rebuttal, yet totally insignificant...The fact that the military funds most of the technology does not mean they don't corrupt the knowledge and utilize it in the most deadly way.

___________________
"...I searched on the mountains and in the valleys but neither in the heights nor in the depths was I able to find Him. I went to the Caaba in Mecca, but He was not there either.
I questioned the scholars and philosophers but He was beyond thair understanding.
I then looked into my heart and it was there where He dwelled that i saw him;he was no where else to be found."

--Jelaluddin Rumi

On the progression of knowledge topic...

What I think is amazing is how simple concepts are today which years ago were too complex for the ordinary mind.

Electricity, the resperatory system, hell even oxygen and other molecules in the air: these concepts were incredibly difficult to understand years ago, but today any schoolkid will tell you that oxygen from the air makes its way to the lungs, then to the circulatory system where it goes throughout the body.

Someday quantum mechanics will be the same. A quantum computer, or teleportation will be childs play. What's next?

My only regret is that I won't be there to see it all.

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Originally posted by cistane Interesting rebuttal, yet totally insignificant...The fact that the military funds most of the technology does not mean they don't corrupt the knowledge and utilize it in the most deadly way.

Well, in actuality, your case for corruption is flawed. Corruption implies an immoral alteration or evasive from what can be considered original, expected, or standard form. If the military researches knowledge and designs a new technology for a specific military purpose, that technological breakthrough is not corrupted since it satisfies the needs of what was expected and desired. If anything, the civilian offshoot of said technology is a (well meaningful) corruption of the efficacy of the originally intended use of the technology.

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Retro ...

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Originally posted by cistane Interesting rebuttal, yet totally insignificant...The fact that the military funds most of the technology does not mean they don't corrupt the knowledge and utilize it in the most deadly way.

How about presenting some facts, instead of opinion, I have a shitload of facts to back up technology which was researched and refined by the military only to be used for public consumption, here's my first fact, look at the screen....the internet was originally contructed as DARPANET for connections between university labs doing work for the military. I have 1000's more of such examples. The word "evil" is a very subjective term as well. Also corrupting knowledge is an interesting term as knowledge cannot be corrupted, people on the other hand....

Mizzuno

OK, if we're going to be so picky with word usage, then I meant the use of the knowledge was being corrupted, not the knowledge itself.

But, if you want facts here are some

First, the definition of the word "evil"

Evil (adj.) - Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful

...As far as any simpleton should know, the military is infamous for such omninous actions...

Second, your point that..."odds are the military funded the research"...which is a statement based on all your previous knowledge of the military and its technology conflicts with an article that states...

quote:

The research was funded by the Austrian Science Fund, the European Commission (QUEST, QUBITS and QGATES networks), the Institut für Quanteninformation and the Laboratory-Directed Research and Development (LDRD) program.

...no where do I see any signs of the military showing its ugly face.If you want to read the article, here ya go...
Scientists Demonstrate Teleportation with Atoms

___________________
"...I searched on the mountains and in the valleys but neither in the heights nor in the depths was I able to find Him. I went to the Caaba in Mecca, but He was not there either.
I questioned the scholars and philosophers but He was beyond thair understanding.
I then looked into my heart and it was there where He dwelled that i saw him;he was no where else to be found."

--Jelaluddin Rumi

quote:

Originally posted by cistane OK, if we're going to be so picky with word usage, then I meant the use of the knowledge was being corrupted, not the knowledge itself. But, if you want facts here are some First, the definition of the word "evil" Evil (adj.) - Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful ...As far as any simpleton should know, the military is infamous for such omninous actions... Second, your point that..."odds are the military funded the research"...which is a statement based on all your previous knowledge of the military and its technology conflicts with an article that states... ...no where do I see any signs of the military showing its ugly face.If you want to read the article, here ya go... Scientists Demonstrate Teleportation with Atoms

The more you post the more you show just how little you know. Firstly,
your misquoted the article, which is the first sign of someone who has no idea how to interpret information. Heres the exact quote:

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"In addition to James, other investigators on the project include Mark Riebe, Hartmut Häffner, Christian Roos, Wolfgang Hänsel, Jan Benhelm, Gavin Lancaster, Timo Körber, Christoph Becher, Ferdinand Schmidt-Kaler and Rainer Blatt. The research was funded by the Austrian Science Fund, the European Commission (QUEST, QUBITS and QGATES networks), the Institut für Quanteninformation and the Laboratory-Directed Research and Development (LDRD) program."

Note: "In addition to James..." for whom does James work? Answer: Los Alamos...what is Los Alamos primary task? Answer: Nuclear Arms Stewardship....

So far you're on shaky ground, you totally left out the main person that being Daniel James, who works for Los Alamos. Theres a fact.

More reasons why you are cluless: 1. The original research into the quantum world was during the Manhattan Project....I would hope you know what that is, it was said to be a "ghostly" world by Einstein, who also worked for Los Alamos to develop the atomic bomb. One can surmise that if the atomic bomb was never researched that we would never have done the basic science necessary to begin to understand the underpinnings of the physical world. 2. This research is inexorably tied to research into quantum crytography, and the ability to crack all known encryption systems by utlizing the novel properties electrons (ie. supposition) aka qubits. This could also yield the ability to create a communications system that cannot be eavesdropped upon without the knowledge of the sender and receiver. 3. Last i looked the "evil" military is also the same military that is dedicated to protecting your sorry ass.

I will give you credit, you did a great job looking up the definition of evil, now you just have to learn something about research and technology.


Mizzuno

Last edited by mizzuno on Jun-23-2004 at 17:58