quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Take a message.

I guess that's all Cheney is good for- taking messages eh?

quote:

Originally posted by xKaoSx I guess that's all Cheney is good for- taking messages eh?

Is that what he was doing while he was hiding out all that time?

In all seriousness--the Dems are calling for several reasons. Many of them are still just bitter about the 2000 election, many of them supported the war but have now flip-flopped as it served their party and their quest for power more than would supporting the views they initially had. A handful of them(like Zell Miller for instance) put partisan issues aside and realized there's a real global threat going on. It's an election year--there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on as well(on both sides).

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Is that what he was doing while he was hiding out all that time? In all seriousness--the Dems are calling for several reasons. Many of them are still just bitter about the 2000 election, many of them supported the war but have now flip-flopped as it served their party and their quest for power more than would supporting the views they initially had. A handful of them(like Zell Miller for instance) put partisan issues aside and realized there's a real global threat going on. It's an election year--there's a lot of smoke and mirrors going on as well(on both sides).

True-
Unfortunately we really wont find out anything about anything till, what, June 2005?

And a small group of the rich and Ignorant who don't want to hear Facts. Which are:

- Osama is nowhere to be found.
- Bush is a liar.
- There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that means there is no way Iraq was an imminent threat to the US
- Did I mention bush is a liar?
- Iraq is not a safe haven for Al-Qaeda, if any people in America haven’t heard Iraqi insurgents have vowed to kill Al-Qaeda and Occupying forces these are Iraqi people Shiites and Sunni’s
- The body count in Iraq is 13,305
- SO not only has bush accounted for 9/11 but he’s also made up for the loss of American lives by killing more Iraqi's
- The world is a much more dangerous place for Americans
- American soldiers are defecting to Canada because they know the war is illegal
- UN rejected war
- Bush is a liar

I should also note that Al-Qaeda has a lot more support now than ever. The US didn’t kill Al-Qaeda they built it up. Now more orphans widows and widowers have developed sympathy for Al-Qaeda, their main source of recruits.

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic And a small group of the rich and Ignorant who don't want to hear Facts. Which are: - Osama is nowhere to be found. - Bush is a liar. - There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that means there is no way Iraq was an imminent threat to the US - Did I mention bush is a liar? - Iraq is not a safe haven for Al-Qaeda, if any people in America haven’t heard Iraqi insurgents have vowed to kill Al-Qaeda and Occupying forces these are Iraqi people Shiites and Sunni’s - The body count in Iraq is 13,305 - SO not only has bush accounted for 9/11 but he’s also made up for the loss of American lives by killing more Iraqi's - The world is a much more dangerous place for Americans - American soldiers are defecting to Canada because they know the war is illegal - UN rejected war - Bush is a liar I should also note that Al-Qaeda has a lot more support now than ever. The US didn’t kill Al-Qaeda they built it up. Now more orphans widows and widowers have developed sympathy for Al-Qaeda, their main source of recruits.

All that can be refuted with one comment.

Moore made a HollyWood movie with distortion of facts.

No?

quote:

Bin Laden Brother Disputes Moore Film Bin Laden Brother Disputes Moore Film 1 hour, 15 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo! PARIS - A half-brother of Osama bin Laden (news - web sites) says he enjoyed most of Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," except for what he called "inaccuracies" about his family. AP Photo "It's a moving film," Yeslam Binladin, a Geneva-based tycoon and one of the al-Qaida leader's 54 siblings, said in an interview with the French magazine VSD. "I even laughed at times," said Binladin, adding, "but a lot less when he states errors or inaccuracies about my family, knowing perfectly well that he's deceiving the public." In the film, Moore says President Bush (news - web sites) tried to cover up his family's longtime business and personal ties to the family of Osama bin Laden and other prominent Saudis because many of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. One of his main points is that the U.S. administration helped 142 Saudis — including two dozen members of bin Laden's family — fly out of the United States two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, even though commercial air space was closed. "That's false and can be verified by anyone," said the Saudi-born Binladin, who intentionally spells his name differently from Osama, the prime suspect in the Sept. 11 attacks. "They benefited from no exceptional authorization to leave American territory." A recent 9/11 panel report states that the chartered flights took place starting Sept. 14, once airspace had reopened. Binladin, who has lived in Geneva for many years and has Swiss citizenship, told the magazine that his U.S.-based family members flew into Geneva on Sept. 20 before taking off again for Saudi Arabia. The movie also states that several family members attended a 2001 wedding of one of Osama bin Laden's sons in Afghanistan (news - web sites) — a claim Binladin says is exaggerated. "Nobody from my family was at this wedding in Afghanistan except for the mother of Osama," said Binladin. Yeslam and Osama are among the 54 sons and daughters of the late Saudi construction magnate Mohammed bin Laden and his 22 wives. Binladin, the founder of Geneva-based financial company Sico, said the last time he saw his younger half-brother was before Osama left Saudi Arabia in 1981.

Back to the point of the thread Moore vs Oreilly pls

Laying out your views on the adminstrations is pure opinionated arguments as opposed to this tub of lard making a fictional movie that not even he admitted was not a documentary.

Only the silly democrats view this movie as a soo called documentary.

LoL wow I cant believe I missed this argument. I never seen O'Railly sound like he did there. What a clash!!!! hehehe sort of funny, they both sounding like whining girls.

Now, who owned who?!?!.. well, ofcourse the conservative side will celebrate O'Rrailly and the lefties Moore.. I'll try to be central here. They both went stuck with their ideas and defended their ideas with two different views.. it was either black and white... I would say Moore made his case .. though not fully hence theres many other things that have gone down.. very nice debate none-the less.

PS: Something I've noticed.. you right wings seem so fired up lately..

___________________
Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

not that i agree with O'Reilly but i think he was a better debator. Moore missed several important issues and got stuck more.

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec All that can be refuted with one comment. Moore made a HollyWood movie with distortion of facts. No? Back to the point of the thread Moore vs Oreilly pls Laying out your views on the adminstrations is pure opinionated arguments as opposed to this tub of lard making a fictional movie that not even he admitted was not a documentary. Only the silly democrats view this movie as a soo called documentary.

Why wouldnt he? .. I mean, the movie is as controversial to him as it is to Bush!!!!!! WoW.. what a shocking coincidence.. it prejudices the common interests he shares with the Bush.

___________________
Upcoming:

Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

quote:

Originally posted by speedracer_mec All that can be refuted with one comment. Moore made a Hollywood movie with distortion of facts. No?

What are you talking about I'm not basing all these facts with Michael Moore's documentary. It has nothing to do with that. Over here in Canada we see both sides of the story and make our own minds. The movie documents what happened in Iraq, so that’s why its a documentary... ok I agree with you when you say its opinionated which is true when he speaks about bush. Other than that everything I said earlier is actually true buddy. I'm not trying to pull your leg. Are you saying Bush has made the world safer? Are you denying the insane death count in Iraq?

True Moore could have said more but look at the interview, the entire time they attack each other over whether Bush is a liar or not. And I give my hats off to O'reilly for doing everything he could to make sure time runs out in the interview so that Moore would not have an opportunity to say everything.

About Bin laden's Step Bro who is like his cousin and hasn’t spoken to Bin Laden since the late 80s early 90s and wasn’t one of the people who flew out of the US. And has every motive to save his and his families name to save his own and his families buisnesses. This is the guy you are going to listen to, buddy its a fact that two days after 9/11 not one not two but 142 members of the Royal Saudi family, Bin laden family and other Saudi nationals flew out of the US when every other saudi was subjected to intense background checkups that lasted weeks. That is all that counts in this PERTICULAR argument. Don’t try and pretend like that’s all Moore talked about in his film.

Ok answer these questions:
How many people killed in Iraq?
Are there any weapons of mass destruction?
How many minutes do you think you'd last if you went to Pakistan for a visit?
Have US soldiers defected to Canada?

If you were the President and someone told you that
'I can draw you a picture of a Nuclear power facility that I have no evidence of'.
' I have information from a friend of a friend of a friend who says Iraq the country who cannot import lead for pencils in school (lead is essential in weapons production and Iraq has none)... has people dieing with diseases because of these sanctions which don’t allow medicine to be imported... is the same country that is enriching uranium. (Which you can detect very easily via satellite due to the large quantity of heat generated) Is going to develop a nuclear bomb to attack the US with?

You’re complaining about Michael Moores 'opinionated arguments' which he doesn’t deny nor does anyone else?
Your complaining about Michael Moores distorted facts?!?!??
I think you need to rethink your concept of Fact and Opinion. At least make some kind of an effort.

quote:

Originally posted by xKaoSx Well basically what it comes down to is someone lied to him to he wouldnt have to lie. The minions he put in place all had their reasons and whether he knowingly lied or someone lied to him and he didnt know better- it doesnt matter- He is still responsible.

yep, the minions he placed throughout the CIA, and british intelligence, and russian intelligence

good call.

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quote:

Originally posted by nic01445 Women aren't "evil" because "evil" is a human trait. Women really aren't a whole lot more than appliances. Every reaction is totally formulaic. Every nag, every whine, every complaint is totally forseeable once you begin to recognize their totally insane and irrational rythm.

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic What are you talking about I'm not basing all these facts with Michael Moore's documentary. It has nothing to do with that. Over here in Canada we see both sides of the story and make our own minds. The movie documents what happened in Iraq, so that’s why its a documentary...

Go watch the movie again.

Watch his crafty editing.
When he shows the scene about the little iraqi kids flying kites and quickly uses a jump cut editing technique to show bombs falling on "building structures" ,People like you get the idea that bombs are falling on houses of those little children. EH?

Now with that in mind go watch that scene again and tell me those werent Saddam's palaces being bombed.

Yes, exactly what Moore wants people like you to believe, Bush kills children of iraq.

That scene does not show what happened in iraq.
Also with Moore getting very rich you would think he would donate money to the Kerry Campaign....He hasnt

Just shows that he wants to brainwash people....I wont go any further.You should get the point

quote:

Originally posted by hausmusic And a small group of the rich and Ignorant who don't want to hear Facts. Which are: - Osama is nowhere to be found. - Bush is a liar. - There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq that means there is no way Iraq was an imminent threat to the US - Did I mention bush is a liar? - Iraq is not a safe haven for Al-Qaeda, if any people in America haven’t heard Iraqi insurgents have vowed to kill Al-Qaeda and Occupying forces these are Iraqi people Shiites and Sunni’s - The body count in Iraq is 13,305 - SO not only has bush accounted for 9/11 but he’s also made up for the loss of American lives by killing more Iraqi's - The world is a much more dangerous place for Americans - American soldiers are defecting to Canada because they know the war is illegal - UN rejected war - Bush is a liar I should also note that Al-Qaeda has a lot more support now than ever. The US didn’t kill Al-Qaeda they built it up. Now more orphans widows and widowers have developed sympathy for Al-Qaeda, their main source of recruits.

ok here are answers

- Osama is not found. Its hard enough to pick Waldo out of a single page, let alone one man in an entire region of a globe.

- Bush is a liar, *please see O'Reily's arguments*

- They had unaccounted weapons after the first gulf war which still are unaccounted for. Saddam never accounted for them. They weren't used and there wasn't an immenent military threat.

- Did I mention bush is a liar? *Please see point #2 above*

- Yeah insurgent will kill Al Qaida? When? After the insurgents finish killing their own people?

- Body count. Please check body count while Saddam was in power. Also check that insurgents are killing far more iraqis than Americans. Please note 68 iraqis killed today in bombing.

- Some 9/11 drivel. Where did you get this one from?

- Why is the world more dangerous? No major attacks against Americans have happened since the war on terror. With terrorists the world is always dangerous.

- Soldiers have defected in every war since war has begun, this is no different. I'd hardly call a few soldiers crossing the border a river of defections.

- The UN doesn't know when to intervene in any situation. There are massacres going on now and they won't do anything either. The UN never passed a resolution against the US in violation of the war in Iraq.

- Bush is a liar - *Please see point 4, regarding point 2 above*