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Originally posted by Cobolt This is true

That is fact.

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but what is also true is that the Electoral College should have been abolished many many years ago.

That is opinion.

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It was set up to protect citizens from their own illiteracy and lack of education. While some may argue that lack of education is still an issue but I would strongly disagree with that statement.

I'm pretty sure that's opinion, but in any event, it would sound like a good idea considering the amount of hooha we all experienced to to general votor incompetence in the 2000 election in Florida. Bottom line: Self-defeating argument.


Get over it, already.

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Originally posted by Shakka While I actually agree with you on the hypocricy statement I'd like to defend what you are referring to as "Puppet government officials." I'd say the U.S. has been rather eager and aggressive to give as much control back to Iraqis as quickly as possible. The Interim Governing Council was obviously a U.S. created body, but the new one, while still closely allied with U.S., is much more independent than the previous one. And I'd say that if history is any indicator thus far(Sovereignty handed over a day early), the Iraqis will be holding independent elections in the coming months. That's not a puppet government, Cyrus. To which I'll add another compliment to the current administration. Dubya said that direct elections in Iraq would be in place before the end of 2004. To me that indicates that whether he is elected or not, he means to get the job done.

So if the iraqi's wanted a nice little mullah that was controlled by the fathers in Iran...the US would have no problem with it and would let them continue their election?

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Originally posted by Cyrus King So if the iraqi's wanted a nice little mullah that was controlled by the fathers in Iran...the US would have no problem with it and would let them continue their election?

While I'm sure the U.S. wouldn't condone it and would probably try to pursuade them otherwise--ultimately I believe the administration is committed to giving the Iraqis that choice. I think Bush actually alluded to something like that when he made one of his big primetime speeches earlier this year.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King You are not paying Iraqi taxes and are not under Iraqi law, yet you support your government in going to war replacing another government becuase they think its right to do so and INSTALL thier own puppet government officials. How come its not okay for canadians to have a say in your government when you can have a say in other nation's governments? Hypocrite.

Apearantly you didn't read my entire statement, here, maybe you should re-read what I wrote:

"If you don't like how American's foreign policy effects your country then YOU need to elect a government in your country that is capable of negotiating changes with the American government and if that still doesn't make the change you desire then YOUR government needs to spend YOUR tax money on an army to try and force change upon my country (haha good luck)."

WE DID TRY TO CHANGE IRAQ's FOREIGN POLICY TOWARDS THE WORLD, they refused to change, so we forced them to change using our army. I'm not being a hippocrite, you're just being illiterate.

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Originally posted by Cobolt This is true but what is also true is that the Electoral College should have been abolished many many years ago.

That's irrelevent. The original statement was that he wasn't fairly eleected. According to the rules of the US government he was.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King So if the iraqi's wanted a nice little mullah that was controlled by the fathers in Iran...the US would have no problem with it and would let them continue their election?

huge, huge hypothetical.
the following art. is from Feb. this year.http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&sec...d=27&m=2&y=2004

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Do the Iraqis want an Islamist regime? 1. The question is pertinent and must be debated. At least five major public opinion polls conducted since the liberation show that support for such a regime hovers around three to four percent. In one poll, the question whether an Iranian-style Islamic Republic would be suitable for Iraq drew a positive response from only one percent of the respondents. None of Iraq’s dozen or so political parties — from the secularists to religious Shiites — demands the creation of an Islamic state. Nor can one find a single prominent Iraqi intellectual who would wish to establish a religious regime. Even the Shiite mullas, starting with their primus inter pares, the Grand Ayatollah Ali-Muhammad Sistani, are not making such a demand. Anyone with some knowledge of Iraqi Shiism would know that the last thing that Iraq’s Shiites want is a regime like that of the Khomeinists in Iran which, after a quarter of a century of terror and war, is now in deep, possibly terminal, crisis.

What Iraqi's want and what you may want are two different things.

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Originally posted by Shakka While I'm sure the U.S. wouldn't condone it and would probably try to pursuade them otherwise--ultimately I believe the administration is committed to giving the Iraqis that choice.

pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease we both know thats bullshit,you telling me that Bush spent all this money to go to war with Iraq and just let some Mullahs take over the country??

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen WE DID TRY TO CHANGE IRAQ's FOREIGN POLICY TOWARDS THE WORLD, they refused to change.

First of all Who the fcuk is Us to force another country to change??
you wanna talk aboutThe world??The US cares about the world?This is the same administraision that didnt give a fuck about what the world was telling them before they went to the War with Iraq.
It is funny how the like to use the terms like "international" and "UN" now more then ever.They fuck up and they ask the world to help them out.

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so we forced them to change using our army

Maybe someone should force their way out into your house and ruin evrything in it.Lets see how you'd feel

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease we both know thats bullshit,you telling me that Bush spent all this money to go to war with Iraq and just let some Mullahs take over the country?? First of all Who the fcuk is Us to force another country to change?? you wanna talk aboutThe world??The US cares about the world?This is the same administraision that didnt give a fuck about what the world was telling them before they went to the War with Iraq. It is funny how the like to use the terms like "international" and "UN" now more then ever.They fuck up and they ask the world to help them out. Maybe someone should force their way out into your house and ruin evrything in it.Lets see how you'd feel

Don't you know that many conservatives are under the impression that they can control the actions of people the world over by simple application of military power and their own ideologies. I heard a retarted commentary by a conservative woman who has a radio show on the other day use this argument "Between Bush and Kerry who would the terrorists be more scared of" What a jackass she was because frankly if the terrorists are these fanatical, islamo-fascist murderers that conservatives have clearly highlighted what makes you think they are scared of either. They blow themselves up and live under an ideology, so what will they be scared of, dying.

Every American knows that not one of us would have accepted what was done to Iraq if it was our nation being invaded. There are far more terrorists today in Iraq than before the conflict yet which direction can the Bush administration turn to but to begging the U.N and Nato(in esssence Europe) to help in the end. Problem is that he cannot garner any support from those bodies because the administration isn't trusted, rubbed people the wrong way and frankly no one wants to inherit any piece of that chaos engulfing Iraq today when it comes to security and stability. From Latin America, to Vietnam and the Middle East(Lebanon) we simply do not learn from the past, when shall we.

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Don't you know that many conservatives are under the impression that they can control the actions of people the world over by simple application of military power and their own ideologies. I heard a retarted commentary by a conservative woman who has a radio show on the other day use this argument "Between Bush and Kerry who would the terrorists be more scared of" What a jackass she was because frankly if the terrorists are these fanatical, islamo-fascist murderers that conservatives have clearly highlighted what makes you think they are scared of either. They blow themselves up and live under an ideology, so what will they be scared of, dying.

Stupid quesion indeed.This just shows how succesful Bush has been for brainwashing millions of Amercians.

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Every American knows that not one of us would have accepted what was done to Iraq if it was our nation being invaded. There are far more terrorists today in Iraq than before the conflict yet which direction can the Bush administration turn to but to begging the U.N and Nato(in esssence Europe) to help in the end. Problem is that he cannot garner any support from those bodies because the administration isn't trusted, rubbed people the wrong way and frankly no one wants to inherit any piece of that chaos engulfing Iraq today when it comes to security and stability. From Latin America, to Vietnam and the Middle East(Lebanon) we simply do not learn from the past, when shall we.

Well said dude.
You'd think they would learn something from their experience in Iraq,but we both know that thats not the case and that Bush is probably planning his next attack on another poor country for the sake of WMD or some other nonesence.
I really dont know what it takes for those who are brainwashed to wake up and see how much harm this administration is causing to the world.

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blah blah brainwashing pick a new argument for a change. We are brainwashed just as much as you are by the people who hate bush.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil blah blah brainwashing pick a new argument for a change. We are brainwashed just as much as you are by the people who hate bush.

Give me one good reason NOT to hate Bush.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil thats why there are [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] tags

he didn't use them.

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