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Originally posted by torontotrance Does'nt it come down to the country's values vs. the individual's values. Religion is not the cause of war, greed is, please understand that. Yes some people have gone to war for religion but it was all about getting more wealth aka greed.

Religion doesnt fight wars, people do. People have gone to war countless times in the name of patriotism, i dont think many people would have a moral issue loving their country. blah people who hate religion should try to spend a little more time understanding it.

I still think it comes down to wanting more land, more power, more money, more everything hence greed. If people actually followed their religion, then wars would not start.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I fail to see what is retarded about that statement. Nobody is forcing those muslims to live in France, and if they decided to imigrate, they should accept local values and customs. If they don't want to do that, they can go back home or to another country that will allow them to wear scarves. There are so many countries out their, each with its own laws and customs, so it shouldn't be hard for people to find the one they prefer. I guess the problem is that those radical muslims in France want to have at the same time french high income and good social security, while still retaining old tribal customs and fundamentalist tyrannical family ties. Fortunately, things don't work that way. Aside from that, that ban is only effective in schools, not in everyday life. State schools are secular institutions in which religion should take no place. Wearing obvious religious symbols, especially by the teachers, is against that notion of secularism, and is therefore logical that personal religious views be banned from being expressed in schools. This law does not apply to head scarves only, it applies to all visible religious insignia, being christian, muslim, jewish, or whatever. Besides, many schools in other countries have their own dressing codes. You can either accept them or, well, move to another country. It's not like the french government is forcing those kids to be atheists or to do horrible things, they are just not allowed to publically share their parents' religious views in school.

Amen.

Hell even at school here in America there are certain things that we couldn't wear in high school that were religious such as certain shirts and hats as they might offend people from other religions. We put up with it and moved on.

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well the law is all about equality at school, avoiding racism at school by prohibiting religious signs is a good idea imo.
People are equal above the teachers and the other students.
The law really has been misunderstood by the muslim population in the world (note: we can ask ourself why they are just muslim protestating when the law is about every relious signs)
Plus this law is not against freedom of expression as we have on our system a control of the laws upon the constitution and the international texts. If the law was anti-freedom of expression it couldnt have been voted.
Now with this 2 guys in irak, im sorry for them but France cant remove the law. Its not possible cuz that would mean that the State is not sovereign (?) anymore which is a necessary condition for a state to be.
Well french governement is doing anything they can to save the 2 guys.

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Originally posted by Arbiter If the muslims don't want to be French, what are they doing in France?

who wants to be French?

i guess they're there just to enjoy the freedom offered in the Country. a freedom they can exploit to help serve their greater cause devoted to terrorism and funding of acts intended to destroy such freedom.

>JM<

The fact that any government prefers it's public schools' students to wear uniforms has nothing to do with personal rights or whatever you want to call it. The sole reason for having a standard uniform is to make everybody equal. Kids can be really cruel, especially to those who are different from themselves, and that includes the clothes that they wear. A uniform ensures that all of the children at least look the same, which is one less reason for the children to be discrimintory.

I've not heard much about the whole France situation, but I can understand perfectly why they don't want the Muslims to wear their traditional headscarfs. It only goes to emphasise the differences between them and the non-muslim students which, while they may be proud of, completely undermines the efforts of the school to make everyone equal.

So why, I hear you say, must they make everyone equal in a western sense of the word?? Well probably because France is a westernised country. And like what has been said before, if they didn't want to adhere to the western style of living, they shouldn't have moved to France.

Just my 02.

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Originally posted by JM who wants to be French? i guess they're there just to enjoy the freedom offered in the Country. a freedom they can exploit to help serve their greater cause devoted to terrorism and funding of acts intended to destroy such freedom. >JM<

I think that just about sums it up. The Algerians, Moroccans, and others who are living on the outskirts of Paris may have French citizenship, but they don't practice Western culture, nor do they want to. There have been a few books published recently in France which are finally starting to raise the issue of "how to save France." I hope it's more than just a fad.

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FLUSHED THE JOHNS!