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Originally posted by tiesto14 My point is you can trace everyone's ancestors back to some fucked up action...but that says nothing about who a person is generations after. If your great grandfather used to be a homosexual drug dealing prostitute that gang raped 49 beavers and massacred 3,200 teenage drag queens across the globe...does that mean i should judge you for his actions?

We're not just talking about one specific relative in the Bush clan. There is a family history of lies, deception, duplicity, etc. Family values which are passed from one generation to the next is what I'm hitting upon here.

Should I start posting that history for the lesser-educated on this board? It's rather well documented, but since it's not covered on the evening news I guess many of you don't know about it.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 Your so quick to judge Bush...yet did you think about the Jews of the Holocaust when you bought your computer?...Do you know how IBM helped the Nazis keep track of the killing of the Jews? So before you judge Bush, judge yourself...youa re no different...he wasnt there, nor where you..but you both in the same support it...with your logic.

Try not to be so simple minded.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 Your so quick to judge Bush...yet did you think about the Jews of the Holocaust when you bought your computer?...Do you know how IBM helped the Nazis keep track of the killing of the Jews? So before you judge Bush, judge yourself...youa re no different...he wasnt there, nor where you..but you both in the same support it...with your logic.

I'm not judging bush for his grandfather's actions, i'm judging him for his actions. stop smoking pot and listening to rush limbaugh in the afternoon, it's affecting your reasoning.

bleh it is pointless with some of you people...no matter what you will hate Bush and look under every rock to persecute him. I don't see that it matters what his grandfather did..makes no difference to me. I don't see you people attacking Kerry for eye-witnessing the murders of innocent Vietnamese children and women and doing nothing except coming back to the states and start saying something...



You hate Bush...fine....but do you spend just as much time checking Kerry's background? I doubt it.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 My point is you can trace everyone's ancestors back to some fucked up action...but that says nothing about who a person is generations after. If your great grandfather used to be a homosexual drug dealing prostitute that gang raped 49 beavers and massacred 3,200 teenage drag queens across the globe...does that mean i should judge you for his actions?

It sounds like you only read the headlines. At the time, it was prohibited for an american company or whatever, to do business with the enemy ( IN this case, Hitler ) .. SO, as the story tells, he lied about the businesses and connections he was having with the Nazi's at the time.. but now, it's proven that he LIED about it, that he did have business with the Nazi's, knowing that it was illegal, kind of getting the picture?!?!.. Mercedez is a German Company if you didnt know.

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Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

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Originally posted by tiesto14 bleh it is pointless with some of you people...no matter what you will hate Bush and look under every rock to persecute him. I don't see that it matters what his grandfather did..makes no difference to me. I don't see you people attacking Kerry for eye-witnessing the murders of innocent Vietnamese children and women and doing nothing except coming back to the states and start saying something... You hate Bush...fine....but do you spend just as much time checking Kerry's background? I doubt it.

LoL I have to get back to you on this. In some ways it may related, both buys ( Bush's grandfather and the current president Bush ) .. have done business with the enemy. The current Bush, has conducted businesses with many of the BIn Laden's, Saudies, etc etc.. where some of those business men, are on the list of having provided Bin Laden with money.. not really a connection, but more like.. Business is Business, no matter who you do it with.. is all about the $$$$$$ ;-).

AS for Kerrry, I dont really get what your saying. You attack Kerry for the fact that he didnt do nothing to stop he's mates in Vietnam?!??!?!.. IT all sounds too easy to you eh?!?! hehe.. At least he had the balls to complain about it.

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Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

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Originally posted by LiquidX It sounds like you only read the headlines. At the time, it was prohibited for an american company or whatever, to do business with the enemy ( IN this case, Hitler ) .. SO, as the story tells, he lied about the businesses and connections he was having with the Nazi's at the time.. but now, it's proven that he LIED about it, that he did have business with the Nazi's, knowing that it was illegal, kind of getting the picture?!?!.. Mercedez is a German Company if you didnt know.

Ford and IBM are American Companies if you didnt know.

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Originally posted by LiquidX LoL I have to get back to you on this. In some ways it may related, both buys ( Bush's grandfather and the current president Bush ) .. have done business with the enemy. The current Bush, has conducted businesses with many of the BIn Laden's, Saudies, etc etc.. where some of those business men, are on the list of having provided Bin Laden with money.. not really a connection, but more like.. Business is Business, no matter who you do it with.. is all about the $$$$$$ ;-). AS for Kerrry, I dont really get what your saying. You attack Kerry for the fact that he didnt do nothing to stop he's mates in Vietnam?!??!?!.. IT all sounds too easy to you eh?!?! hehe.. At least he had the balls to complain about it.

Bush did business with Bin Ladens and Saudies i know...but not directly with Bin Laden...as far as i know it wasnt a crime to business with someone who has a brother that is a criminal. No law broken there. And where were you people when Clinton was doing business with the Taliban with that whole pipeline...you know the one M Moore blamed on Bush

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Originally posted by tiesto14 Bush did business with Bin Ladens and Saudies i know...but not directly with Bin Laden...as far as i know it wasnt a crime to business with someone who has a brother that is a criminal. No law broken there. And where were you people when Clinton was doing business with the Taliban with that whole pipeline...you know the one M Moore blamed on Bush

Then I should go and do business with the brother of the biggest terrorist in the world, as well causins and such, knowingly he's the bastard that blew up the American embassy's overseas.. and oh, yeah, the World Trade Center. . My whole point in this was that that you first made an argument that why blame Bush's grandpa for doing business, in which it helped the Nazi's with their financial needs at the time.. and I will say again, at the time, it was PROHIBITED to do so, as for IBM and Ford, I dont know what their roll was, but they were probably punished for it ( or they should have ).. Im yet to see what they did ( IBM.. mmm Lots of computers at the time eh ? )..

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Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

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Originally posted by LiquidX Then I should go and do business with the brother of the biggest terrorist in the world, as well causins and such, knowingly he's the bastard that blew up the American embassy's overseas.. and oh, yeah, the World Trade Center. . My whole point in this was that that you first made an argument that why blame Bush's grandpa for doing business, in which it helped the Nazi's with their financial needs at the time.. and I will say again, at the time, it was PROHIBITED to do so, as for IBM and Ford, I dont know what their roll was, but they were probably punished for it ( or they should have ).. Im yet to see what they did ( IBM.. mmm Lots of computers at the time eh ? )..

I see your point...and i agree a little...

There are more things that IBM does besides make home computers...lol...IBM developed a machine that would keep tabs on all Jews as they entered the camps and then executed...they basically developed a machine that counted the dead and alive...or something like that...do a Google search because it is well known...and they are being sued by some Jews.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 I see your point...and i agree a little... There are more things that IBM does besides make home computers...lol...IBM developed a machine that would keep tabs on all Jews as they entered the camps and then executed...they basically developed a machine that counted the dead and alive...or something like that...do a Google search because it is well known...and they are being sued by some Jews.

The keyword there.. been sued by the jews. Samething is going on with this very important character of the time ( whom happened to be George Bush's Granpa ).. Jews are not going to stay calmed with this.

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Michael Andrews Feat. Gary Jules - Mad World (Grayed Out Mix)

thanks for the google heads up. From the articles i've read, i've gathered that the main ibm contribution was to the german cencus of 1933... six years before the invasion of poland, and the onstart of prohibitive trade with germany. unless someone can provide a western union transcript between hitler and thomas watson outlining hitler's plan to utilize census information to exterminate 6 million jews, i think ibm's involvement may be rather overplayed.

not that this means anything. hell, if i were to run for office, my family would be called flip-floppers (on grandad fought for the US in the air over germany, while the other fought for the Nazis on a ship).

I guess that i just want to disprove the notion that american corporate aid to germany past 1939 was the "in" thing to do. unfortunatly, i can't find any justifications for mercedes' involvement with hitler, so i guess we'll never know