quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Ya I think I heard that before too. He is against Gay Marriage, not against Gay Unions. Again, the problem with Gay marriage is the historical/religious context associated with marriage - and I agree with Bush on it. I also am for Gay Unions but against Gay Marriage.

+1
100% agree

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"Dance music will always remain, I just hope it develops into a more underground feel. and people like DJ Sammy and all those people, respect to them but thats NOT trance."
-Armin van Buuren

(interview from www.beat-junkies.net)

quote:

Originally posted by Ondrayce What about men who are impotent or sterile? Should they not be allowed to marry?

It does not matter if they're impotent or sterile, as you said they're still "men".

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"Dance music will always remain, I just hope it develops into a more underground feel. and people like DJ Sammy and all those people, respect to them but thats NOT trance."
-Armin van Buuren

(interview from www.beat-junkies.net)

quote:

Originally posted by SOLO It does not matter if they're impotent or sterile, as you said they're still "men".

I should have clarified by saying straight impotent or sterile men. The argument being that procreation is the main purpose of marriage, and since gays cannot do so naturally they shouldn't be able to marry. But impotent and sterile straight men would also not be able to procreate naturally. The sterile especially, but impotancy would also require at least a minimal amount unnatural intervention to help produce a child.

So the question stands.

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quote:

Originally posted by tecnolover Then you are calling some of the greatest men on earth irrational? Jesus Christ who taught some of the most profound moral and ethical lesson in all the world, who is even accepted as a great teacher by Islam and many other religions on earth. Abraham-who is accepted as a great prophet not only by christians but by Islam and Judaism, Abraham lincoln and George Washington considered by many to be the two greatest presidents of the USA. You call them irrational, well then I guess we should all choose to be irrational. You just had to get me started again! I originally never came to this forum to discus religion, only to discredit Kerry! You aren't Arbiter's twin brother are you?! hehe Anybody can verify it. Do you believe that God would only let His existance be known to a select few? God can and will prove it to you if really want to know. The evidence would be yours alone if you sought it. You said you are inclined to believe water boils at 100degrees because you tested it. Well don't you know that you can also test for the existance of God also? It is a testable thing. But you have to want to know if He exists first. Many don't want to truely know. Heck, I didn't want to know at one time. there will come a time in each mans life when he will be ready and willing to know the truth including yours. What do you think the purpose is? Think about it. A true God who loves you would never want you to blindly follow or falsely believe if you can know for yourself with testable and discernable evidence. Again, the question is do you want to know for yourself? It's not just something to look forward to. It's more than that. Do you really think the next life is going to be much different? You will cary the same knowlege and beliefs with you as you have here in this existance. And again the choice will be yours to either find out the truth or not. No we are not to impose our beliefs on others. After all Christ taught us not to judge others but worry about ourselves. But given a vote, for or against gay marriage, well that is my choice by the democratic system and I choose to oppose it. That is my right.

First off, I am open to the possibility of a God existing but I find that a great majority of my religious friends (Christian, Muslim and Jewish alike) scoff and discount the notion off the bat like it was absurd. After all, to me absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. And to counter the argument that I dont actually WANT to know, I was raised in a strict Muslim upbringing and for the best part of my life practiced it blindly without question. And that's the key I believe. The power of independent thought is the greatest enemy for any insitution of God be it Judaisim, Christianity, Islam or any other religion. Things just are in religion, there is no why or how.

I respect people's beliefs, after all I had a few of my own. However, the majority of believers did not choose their faith but were born into it. To me that says a lot. To put one's undying faith in an event of pure chance (being born into the religion) doesn't take much spiritual courage. I just feel it is natural that one should doubt their religion.

Also, I find it amusing that people ask me to prove that God doesnt exist because the natural state of being is quite the opposite. Its only when you make a statement that something we can't see or touch exists that it has to be backed up with evidence. Anyways, whatever rocks your boat I suppose.

ps: no Im not Arbiter's twin brother

quote:

Originally posted by Ondrayce I should have clarified by saying straight impotent or sterile men. The argument being that procreation is the main purpose of marriage, and since gays cannot do so naturally they shouldn't be able to marry. But impotent and sterile straight men would also not be able to procreate naturally. The sterile especially, but impotancy would also require at least a minimal amount unnatural intervention to help produce a child. So the question stands.

I second that. Marriage isnt only about procreation. In fact, I doubt thats on anyone's mind when they fall in love with a person.

quote:

Originally posted by razmataz I second that. Marriage isnt only about procreation. In fact, I doubt thats on anyone's mind when they fall in love with a person.

Certainly that second premise can be argued as I said. But it should be remembered that to have pleasure, companionship, love, finacial support ect ect. doesn't require the act of marriage. Marriage being a contractual agreement in a society would seem to be more directed to the continuing of and strengthening of the natural family.

quote:

quote: Originally posted by tecnolover Ultimately, isn't procreation the most important of all? quote: Originally posted by trancaholic To whom? Why do we, as a species, need to last?

Thats a good question trancaholic. I honestly don't know for certain. My thoughts are that each of us have a natural self interest to survive so that we may experience love, learning and advancement in all things. We are of matter and matter can never be destroyed only changed. Therfore, we can never cease to exist. We have always existed even before this mortal life. This existance would seem to be a place of learning or further advancement and I think that is why we are here. We chose this, so to wish for death would be counter intuitive. Even suicidal individuals I don't think necessarily want to cease to exist, they merely wish to leave this existance and find peace.

quote:

But it should be remembered that to have pleasure, companionship, love, finacial support ect ect. doesn't require the act of marriage.

Procreation doesn't require the act of marriage either does it?

Stupid Double Posts!!

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail Procreation doesn't require the act of marriage either does it?

No it does not. However, to recieve the family benefits of the state/fed gov. certainly it does.

I dont really wanna start a flame war, but is the bible a usermanual for life, think people, we got this far in life by thinking diffrent then our ancestors, if we still had a 100% religious belife then we would be no where, the bible says dont masturbate but 90% of us do! Its for the good, anything that can benifit us should be legal, religion+politics=insane people talking out of there minds!

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Trance - An required Addiction.