quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo WTF? if your referring to India, talk to Clinton. the U.S. has always been at the forefront of making peace and properity with countries that want nukes.

so how do expain iran and north korea?

calling them 'the axis of evil' is just another way of saying "howdy"?

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quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange calling them 'the axis of evil' is just another way of saying "howdy"?

hehe

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quote:

Originally posted by NiteKiD Death to America? that is most definitely a threat especially on the passing of a nuclear enrichment program wtf are they thinking?

gimme break

Thanks to ur president the US has alot more enemies and more countries hating it. Your stupid president called Iran Axis of Evil many times what do you expect to hear from them?

Iran will be a threat to the US troops in Iraq once they get attacked.

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quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange so how do expain iran and north korea? calling them 'the axis of evil' is just another way of saying "howdy"?

oh shit! are you backpedalling, dude?

while your talking to clinton and getting a history lesson, mention something about the Abdul Q. Khan nuclear black market network in Pakistan that my president shut down. (you and your ilk don't seem to care too much about that)

what about Iran and DPRNK? Iran doesn't have any (yet) and we've been in talks with that little psycho in Korea for years. now he doesn't want to talk b/c he's afraid of Bush.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo oh shit! are you backpedalling, dude? while your talking to clinton and getting a history lesson, mention something about the Abdul Q. Khan nuclear black market network in Pakistan that my president shut down. (you and your ilk don't seem to care too much about that) what about Iran and DPRNK? Iran doesn't have any (yet) and we've been in talks with that little psycho in Korea for years. now he doesn't want to talk b/c he's afraid of Bush.

packpeddling from what? i wrote "Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Pakistan, India, N. Korea aquire nukes on this administration's watch? Or was that unde the previous US adminstration?" I never claimed that what i stated was a fact. Fine you clarified that for me and I appreciate that.

What good did it do to 'shut down' the Abdul Q. Khan nuclear black market network when he passed the technology already. What do you mean by shutting it down. Abdul Q. Khan is a national hero and i don't think any punishment will accomplish anything. As far as know, he's a free man anyway.

Insofar as Korea, N. Korea want to dialogue with the US, but I believe the Bush administation only want multilateral talks and does not want to engage NK unilateraly. I think what you stated is incorrect. I think Bush even mentioned this postition in one of the debates. And Bush calls himself a leader?

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quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange packpeddling from what? i wrote "Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Pakistan, India, N. Korea aquire nukes on this administration's watch? Or was that unde the previous US adminstration?" I never claimed that what i stated was a fact. Fine you clarified that for me and I appreciate that.

and i told you, we do everything we can to stop proliferation...peacefully. but liberals see fit too shortsided to shift blame on Bush. it just doesn't work that way.

quote:

What good did it do to 'shut down' the Abdul Q. Khan nuclear black market network when he passed the technology already. What do you mean by shutting it down. Abdul Q. Khan is a national hero and i don't think any punishment will accomplish anything. As far as know, he's a free man anyway.

Pakistan detonated their first bomb in '98, as did India. thats why he's a hero. Khan's network existed for a decade previous to that until 2003. BTW thanks Bush. he is now under house arrest and is a soveriegn Pakistani affair. with six of his scientist and collaberators under our control.

quote:

Insofar as Korea, N. Korea want to dialogue with the US, but I believe the Bush administation only want multilateral talks and does not want to engage NK unilateraly. I think what you stated is incorrect. I think Bush even mentioned this postition in one of the debates. And Bush calls himself a leader?

Multilateralism is the key to that. we must have China involved. we must have Japan involved. we must have S. Korea involved. but thats moot b/c all he is interested in is extortion. i thought you guys preferred multilateralism? or do use that term conveniently?

let's not forget that my president took away Iran's number one reason to justify nukes in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo and i told you, we do everything we can to stop proliferation...peacefully. but liberals see fit too shortsided to shift blame on Bush. it just doesn't work that way.

he's in office and the election is a referendum on his presidency.

quote:

Pakistan detonated their first bomb in '98, as did India. thats why he's a hero. Khan's network existed for a decade previous to that until 2003. BTW thanks Bush. he is now under house arrest and is a soveriegn Pakistani affair. with six of his scientist and collaberators under our control.

if the previous administrations didn't do enough, shame on them, but there is nothing anyone can do about that. If Bush did prevent further proliferation, that is great, but i'm sure more can be done.

quote:

Multilateralism is the key to that. we must have China involved. we must have Japan involved. we must have S. Korea involved. but thats moot b/c all he is interested in is extortion. i thought you guys preferred multilateralism? or do use that term conveniently?

i'm not sure you refer to as 'you guys', but i consider myself a pragmatist progressive. i think the everyone can agree that something must be done. in my view sometimes this call for multilateralism or unilateralism; there has to some flexibility. as time passes, they advance their program.

looks like this discussion is at its end point. thanks for the info.

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quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil There is a big difference in a peaceful country having nuclear weapons and a rogue nation having them. A rogue nation will use them for blackmail, will use them as a deterrent to do anything they wish, as a way of seeking more power than they deserve, and as a way to spread the technology to terrorists.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo Iran with nuclear weapons is like giving a 5yr old a loaded shotgun. nothing good will come of it. they don't need it.

I disagree. Firstly, America is not a peaceful country. They've attacked more countries than Iran, Iraq and North Korea combined. Secondly, Iran has NEVER attacked another country, and I don't see why they would start now. Although I don't like any of the current leaders in Iran, they are not lunatics and would never use nuclear weapons unless it is in retaliation.

Now, some clarification to the "death to America" saying. The parliament in Iran really doesn't represent the people, especially in the recent elections where many reformers were banned from running for seats. The hardliners have a majority in the parliament and they say stupid things like that. The people don't really buy it and have stopped listening to this kind of nonsense. Most Iranians have nothing bad to say about Americans, it's always the American government that is not well liked.

I already posted this in the Toronto forums, but for everyone else, watch this:
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/htm...TURE/index.html

quote:

Originally posted by Superstar I already posted this in the Toronto forums, but for everyone else, watch this: http://www.nytimes.com/packages/htm...TURE/index.html

Great link man,I hope everyone here to go and watch this

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quote:

Originally posted by Superstar I disagree. Firstly, America is not a peaceful country. They've attacked more countries than Iran, Iraq and North Korea combined. Secondly, Iran has NEVER attacked another country, and I don't see why they would start now. Although I don't like any of the current leaders in Iran, they are not lunatics and would never use nuclear weapons unless it is in retaliation.

oh sure, i'm sure the government wouldn't but that same government has been sponsoring and harboring and exporting more terrorism longer than any middle eastern country in modern history.

they are the five year olds, we're not.

i totally disagree with your notion that America is not a peaceful country. as far as nuclear weapons are concerned we have consistently demonstrated we are the most peacefull and peace seeking nuclear power in the world. can you count how many non-proliferation treaties and strategic arms agreements we have spearheaded in the last 50yrs on two hands?

Nagasaki and Hiroshima taught the world a lesson in peace. the U.S. reminds us of that all of the time. oppressive regimes and flawed ideology are the ones who haven't learned that lesson.