It simple the US philosophy of freedom can be described as different from the European system like this:

In the US they believe you should be as free as possible from government.
In the EU they beleive your government should be free to make you comfortable.


Therefore in the US you are (more) free from paying taxes. In the EU you are (more) free from worrying about life.

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^ill chose life over taxes.

the quality of my life will not be defined by how much money i have or make. it will be defined by how happy and content i am with everything else (health, love, success with personal goals, family, etc)

americans seem to think that having a good life is through being rich.

well, sadly, thats not the case. ignorants.

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you can have a much better life with money than without it. the only people that tell you otherwise are people that don't have any money.

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Its all about how you define freedom in the first place. To me, freedom is not just laws, but also how your actions are perceived by the people around you.

Even with the so called freedom in laws of US - when in the post 911 US, people were denouncing and even physically assaulting the critics of Bush because critisizing Bush somehow automatically meant you were against America, and like when you were critisizing the war in Iraq or Afganistan you had to add the line "but i support the troops" or you risked a beating. Or the "freedom fries," remember that? Sure youre were free to do all those things, but being free meant getting beat up by rednecks for your opinion. Is that really freedom of speech that the US is so proud of for example?

Theres also a certain "right" way to behave and look in North America, and all these perceptions of people have of you if you dont fit in. Like if a girl dresses in a revealing sexy way here shes automatically a slut, while Ive seen girls dress outside in Ukraine in what strippers wear here, and its perceived as totally fine there. And it is fine, those girls have no attitude, they dont want to prove anything by dressing like that its just what they put on that day. Also things like calling the cops if theres a fight at school, is that really necessary? Call the parents. In Toronto here they banned snowball fights in all schools because its *dangerous*. Is that freedom? Thats 1984 thats what it is.

I dunno, theres just so many social constrains thanks to this whole consumption society North America has going on, that makes me want to move back. European girls are more fit and smarter, too.

quote:

Originally posted by Seventil However, what it does have is religious freedom. That's really what the forefathers meant by "Land of the Free" - they were sick of religion being forced onto them from European countries. Now, with that said - I think anyone that has been to Italy, Spain, France - would agree that you are pretty much "born" Catholic in these countries. So, from that perspective, America has done well in allowing it's citizens to freely choose for themselves in what they want to believe.

Now i have never been to America but alot of people voted for bush because of his beliefs on abortion, gay marraige etc. Surely thats linked with religion? And they voted for him because of his religious belifs in a way he will force those belifs onto the people of his country.



anyway back to the original question. Again i have very basic knowledge of America so i could be wrong with the following. In america you only have a limited number of weeks getting social welfare before your cut off, i heard its four weeks or so but that could be wrong. Also, your minimum wage is around $5.15 for most states which seems quite low.

these are not totally freedom issues, but more social differences. America seems to be a more "survival of the fittest" nation then Europe is.

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Minimum wage is set to a federal 5.15/hr. Individual states have the discretion to set it higher than that if they see fit. Certain states have a higher cost of living than others so it makes sense.

Here is a chart of all the states and how much their rates are. They differ from $5.15/hr to $8.15/hr minimum.

Well life is survival of the fittest, you can't just have things handed to you, (although that would be damn nice!)

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in a very general scope, I've found america to be more interested in preserving individual freedoms, even though that may enroach on the freedom of others, than most other western societies. Gun control is the most obvious case, where the right for anyone to own a gun is protected, at the expense of everyone else's right to feel safer from crime. Not sure if it is the case anywhere, but the police not having the right to pull you over for alcohol testing without a decent reason seems to protect your rights, but not those of other road users who want to be safe from drink driving.
How this adds up to an overall score of freedom depends on your lifestyle I guess. With no desire to own a gun, the strict laws here make no difference to me, but if you were a serious hunter you would find that a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Cal Its all about how you define freedom in the first place. To me, freedom is not just laws, but also how your actions are perceived by the people around you. Even with the so called freedom in laws of US - when in the post 911 US, people were denouncing and even physically assaulting the critics of Bush because critisizing Bush somehow automatically meant you were against America, and like when you were critisizing the war in Iraq or Afganistan you had to add the line "but i support the troops" or you risked a beating. Or the "freedom fries," remember that? Sure youre were free to do all those things, but being free meant getting beat up by rednecks for your opinion. Is that really freedom of speech that the US is so proud of for example? Theres also a certain "right" way to behave and look in North America, and all these perceptions of people have of you if you dont fit in. Like if a girl dresses in a revealing sexy way here shes automatically a slut, while Ive seen girls dress outside in Ukraine in what strippers wear here, and its perceived as totally fine there. And it is fine, those girls have no attitude, they dont want to prove anything by dressing like that its just what they put on that day. Also things like calling the cops if theres a fight at school, is that really necessary? Call the parents. In Toronto here they banned snowball fights in all schools because its *dangerous*. Is that freedom? Thats 1984 thats what it is. I dunno, theres just so many social constrains thanks to this whole consumption society North America has going on, that makes me want to move back. European girls are more fit and smarter, too.

exactly my thoughts! and there are endless of this kinds of examples...

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Don't what the hell St_Andrew is talking about... Kids take public transportation just as much as the school bus around here...(Toronto)

it was in another thread that i asked why not combine the school buses and public transport to get better services for everyone (mainly in rural/small cities areas that is)... and everyone was like "I would never put my child on public transport, it is soooo dangerous" (most of that thread was gone in the hdd crash tho =/)... that was only americans tho, might be different in canada

I've been to the US (NY to be specific) and lived in a university environment for a while so I had the chance to talk with students there and experience their life from first hand. Comparing NY to London I felt that in the US there's a lot of control over minor things that in the UK and other European countries are taken for granted to be free. For example, drinking age, and being illegal to carry alcoholic drinks on the passenger compartment of your car. I've seen students having to travel miles to get cigarettes because the university banned cigarette and alcohol selling around the campus. Oh come on, in the dorms I was staying in london we had our own bar on the ground floor. I can't see why they get so obsessive about alcohol when these restrictions have not helped the US to keep the rate of alcoholism down. And lets not get into drug issues, smoking pot for example - compare UK to US and you'll see what I mean.

Anyway, maybe its just me having a different opinion on what freedom is as some people have said before in this topic..

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Random quotes from asshole american students ive come across:

"Does Poland have color TVs?"
"Poland, wheres that? Is'nt that somewhere in Asia?"
"America's the best, so fuck the rest!"

I've lived in Canada for 15 years, and never have I much a single one thats SO FUCKING STUPID. It only takes ONE trip to the states to hear that kind of shit there.

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