In Oakville it takes 45 mins to an hour and $2 each way to get to the mall by bus. It's a 10 min drive and probably less than $1 in fuel. Shit like this has to stop because id be the first person to sell my car, stop paying insurance, repairs, gas and parking if we had decent transit.

I dont buy into the "Must have a car to be cool" concept however around here a car is a must or else you are screwed.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Unfortunatly, the previous government set us (the TTC) back several years by not funding public transit (the ONLY transit system not funded by local government in north america at the time) and therefore had to rebuild its old fleet of buses ( I know cause I did that for 4 years).THe Eglinton subway would have been built but was/is mothballed.I do agree with Jay & that the TTC should toss the streetcars because they are not very effecient and none are wheelchair accessable.Today I heard that they are not running because the overhead power lines are frozen ...

If this country had enough foresight & vision then the politicians would know that a healthy & efficient transit will result in cleaner air & fewer cars on the road & therefore less traffic...less traffic means that goods are delivered on time which saves businesses money...Also cleaner air means less smog which results in fewer absent workers and fewer visits to the hospital & therefore less stress on our healthcare...

There is definitly a huge trickle down effect with a good transit system

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"Kiss them for me...for I may be delayed."

And people walk more too!

Yes that was one of the bad things that harris did. He did a lot of good but cancelling the subway line wasnt one of them.

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut People don't seem to get it... our population is ALREADY triple what our city is actually designed to handle. Given our population, that is exactly what our subway system *should* look like!

No, I get it perfectly.

Maybe at certain routes such as Eglinton or the Don Mills line (which would really be useful), but if they actually went along and built a subway system like that in Toronto then it'd be a waste of money, mainly because of how that westend is designed. The Lakeshore line would be useless, not that many people use it in the first place...if they had a subway goin there like that then it'd be empty half the time.

Sure, it'd be nice if we all had the subway go to our own doorsteps, but looking at it realistically, at least 2 of those lines wouldn't be needed there. Unless of course, you want to eliminate bus use completely. Then of course, a system like that would be perfect

Last edited by infinity HiGH on Dec-23-2004 at 23:31

A lot of valid points raised, but people are getting caught up in the fine detail and ignoring the fundamentals.

There are three main factors that will decide a person's choice of transportation, and in order of priority they are:

1. Time
2. Comfort
3. Expense

Time is #1. You have to wait for the bus out in the cold/heat. They're slow. It takes an hour and a half to get to and from work. The comfort level on a bus is low too, but even if the buses were redesigned to be super comfy with big screen TVs, nobody would willingly accept a means of transportation that requires a 1½ hour commitment when there is another means that is only a ½-hour commitment. When deciding between a bus and a car, the only limiting factor that would make someone choose a bus is a hard limitation on expense (i.e. they can't afford it).

Subways are different. Especially in the downtown area, subways are actually FASTER than cars because of all the traffic jams. Comfort level is average, there's usually room even in peak times. So that just leaves expense.

For anyone under 30, it costs about $200/mo to finance the cheapest car (we're ignoring the people who buy beaters because most people don't) and rarely less than $3000/yr in insurance as the primary driver. Add about $30/wk minimum in gas and $500/yr in maintenance (oil changes, tire rotations, alignment, minor repairs, etc.). That's roughly $7400 a year, or $20 per day (or $28 if you only count business days), to own and operate a car. And that's a *conservative* estimate.

I submit, therefore, that people would be willing to pay AT LEAST that much per day for a well-designed, comfortable subway system that takes them where they want to go in less than half the time.

Why do we need the city government to make these subway systems? If a corporation can milk even $5000 per year out of 1 million frustrated city drivers, they're bringing in $5 billion in revenues per year! That's HUGE! Surely whatever outrageous figure is attached to building a private subway would pay for itself in no time at all??

And hey - why not make even more money? Put heated parking lots in the subway stations! If I were trying to get downtown, and I could get there in 10 minutes by subway but had to waste 30 minutes getting to the subway station by bus, I would GLADLY shell out a few bucks to park my car at the subway station. At $5 a pop, I'll bet they could pack in at least 1000 cars a day (across ALL the subway stations, not just one). At $5000 a day that's almost another $2 million a year in pocket cash.

Is there ANYONE here who wants to dispute these figures? I'm not a business man, or an economist, I'm sure there's probably something I'm missing, but even if you cut that profit figure down to 1%, it's still a ridiculous amount of revenue!

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quote:

Originally posted by bass drive but by privatizing the transit, you'd have to pay more than one fare (for each), no? like in Tokyo http://soli.inav.net/~ceicher/images/TokyoSubways.jpg

i used to live in South Korea and their freakin' subway system is VERY comparable. Get lost in transl;ation just going on the subway - - all in a different language and the chances of you finding an english speakin' person to help you are NEXT TO NONE!

NEVER AGAIN!

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quote:

Originally posted by dallastar i used to live in South Korea and their freakin' subway system is VERY comparable. Get lost in transl;ation just going on the subway - - all in a different language and the chances of you finding an english speakin' person to help you are NEXT TO NONE! NEVER AGAIN!

Yeah those damned foreigners in other countries that dont speak english ahahahahahhahaha

Im willing to bet that Koreans say the same thing about our subways. "not one person who speaks Korean, never again." Then again, in Toronto anything is possible LOL

That kind of reminds me of when i was in Tijuana Mexico and this American says to me "look at all the foreigners" and i turned to him and the rest of our group and said "where? i only see 4 of us!"

bahahahahha

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Yeah those damned foreigners in other countries that dont speak english ahahahahahhahaha Im willing to bet that Koreans say the same thing about our subways. "not one person who speaks Korean, never again." Then again, in Toronto anything is possible LOL That kind of reminds me of when i was in Tijuana Mexico and this American says to me "look at all the foreigners" and i turned to him and the rest of our group and said "where? i only see 4 of us!" bahahahahha

ahahhah

___________________
DALLAS STAR ™ °¤§£¤y°

Treat people as if they are what they ought to be and you may help them to become what they are capable of being.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut A lot of valid points raised, but people are getting caught up in the fine detail and ignoring the fundamentals. There are three main factors that will decide a person's choice of transportation, and in order of priority they are: 1. Time 2. Comfort 3. Expense Time is #1. You have to wait for the bus out in the cold/heat. They're slow. It takes an hour and a half to get to and from work. The comfort level on a bus is low too, but even if the buses were redesigned to be super comfy with big screen TVs, nobody would willingly accept a means of transportation that requires a 1½ hour commitment when there is another means that is only a ½-hour commitment. When deciding between a bus and a car, the only limiting factor that would make someone choose a bus is a hard limitation on expense (i.e. they can't afford it). Subways are different. Especially in the downtown area, subways are actually FASTER than cars because of all the traffic jams. Comfort level is average, there's usually room even in peak times. So that just leaves expense. For anyone under 30, it costs about $200/mo to finance the cheapest car (we're ignoring the people who buy beaters because most people don't) and rarely less than $3000/yr in insurance as the primary driver. Add about $30/wk minimum in gas and $500/yr in maintenance (oil changes, tire rotations, alignment, minor repairs, etc.). That's roughly $7400 a year, or $20 per day (or $28 if you only count business days), to own and operate a car. And that's a *conservative* estimate. I submit, therefore, that people would be willing to pay AT LEAST that much per day for a well-designed, comfortable subway system that takes them where they want to go in less than half the time. Why do we need the city government to make these subway systems? If a corporation can milk even $5000 per year out of 1 million frustrated city drivers, they're bringing in $5 billion in revenues per year! That's HUGE! Surely whatever outrageous figure is attached to building a private subway would pay for itself in no time at all?? And hey - why not make even more money? Put heated parking lots in the subway stations! If I were trying to get downtown, and I could get there in 10 minutes by subway but had to waste 30 minutes getting to the subway station by bus, I would GLADLY shell out a few bucks to park my car at the subway station. At $5 a pop, I'll bet they could pack in at least 1000 cars a day (across ALL the subway stations, not just one). At $5000 a day that's almost another $2 million a year in pocket cash. Is there ANYONE here who wants to dispute these figures? I'm not a business man, or an economist, I'm sure there's probably something I'm missing, but even if you cut that profit figure down to 1%, it's still a ridiculous amount of revenue!

u raise some good points

and yeh, the gov't could never afford something like the proposed system. a private company could invest in it for sure. id love to see something like that in my lifetime

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"The best car-related innovation we have is not to improve the car, but eliminate the need to drive it everywhere we go.” -Alex Steffen

but what company would do it?

rogers? bell? it would have to be a quite substantial company.

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess but what company would do it? rogers? bell? it would have to be a quite substantial company.

Not necessarily - investors and venture capitalists could provide the funding (what's the word for the corporations that do nothing but invest capital - incubators?). That's what they did with the dot coms.

But maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, I don't know. I just keep looking at the 407 and thinking, hey, why can't they do that with the subway? I don't think the 407/ETR was started by any big corporation, but I could be wrong.

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My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
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2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here