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Originally posted by anuneventrade http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2004Jul23.html Huh. That's funny. From the title you would think that you would gain some amazing new perspective about why the Germans slaughtered thousands of people - This article didn't say jack shit.

the man was fighting for his survival and for his comrades. not for hitler or the nazi regime. if he hadnt fought like he did, he would have been killed, wounded, and if he just sat there and waited to surrender, he would have been killed anyways(Omaha Beach was much too hot to just sit around or get up and walk to surrender) or he would be letting down his comrades who are fighting for their own survival and that of each other.

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Originally posted by h@x0r What is it about our northen neighbors that so many folks have a severe brain frostbite??? I'm sorry - all this nonsene about following orders. I'd say that those who were just following orders constituted less than 10% of the total force. This also included the cowards who believed in cause but didn't want to die for it and surrendered to the allies whinnying "We follow orders! we don't want to kill!" ... The rest were ready to die for what they believed in - Arian nation. Sure, just like in any army - you have "soft hearted" soldiers or those who don't share the ideology. However, I find it hard to justify the execution of women and children as "those were my orders". personally, faced with a choice - I'd rather shoot my commanding officer and take my chances with the consequences than kill innocent beings. But that's just me... Of course, history also tells us of legions of Ukrainian soldiers who joined German forces to fight the "Bolsheviks" and "Kikes"... Those were probably not subject or too opposed to german orders, being volunteers and all... Ooops, sorry - breached a sensitive subject here.

Provide the sorces that say over 90% of the German army were fighting for the Arian Nation please (thats the CONSCRIPTED German soldiers by the way)

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Originally posted by George Smiley Originally posted by h@x0r What is it about our northen neighbors that so many folks have a severe brain frostbite??? I'm sorry - all this nonsene about following orders. I'd say that those who were just following orders constituted less than 10% of the total force. This also included the cowards who believed in cause but didn't want to die for it and surrendered to the allies whinnying "We follow orders! we don't want to kill!" ... The rest were ready to die for what they believed in - Arian nation. Sure, just like in any army - you have "soft hearted" soldiers or those who don't share the ideology. However, I find it hard to justify the execution of women and children as "those were my orders". personally, faced with a choice - I'd rather shoot my commanding officer and take my chances with the consequences than kill innocent beings. But that's just me... Of course, history also tells us of legions of Ukrainian soldiers who joined German forces to fight the "Bolsheviks" and "Kikes"... Those were probably not subject or too opposed to german orders, being volunteers and all... Ooops, sorry - breached a sensitive subject here.

are u an idiot?? it is true, that in the beginning of the war, the drug of victory and of the fuhrer bringing victory upon the soldiers did intoxicate the soldiers. many might have been fighting for the fuhrer in the beginning. but, 1941 onwards, the vast majority of soldiers fought for each other and for their country, and no longer for the fuhrer. the SS Einsatzgruppen were the ones carrying out aryan purification of europe. not the wehrmacht or waffen SS.

there was one division of ukrainian soldiers fighting for the germans. about several thousand is my estimate. they tried to surrender to the americans in czechoslavakia at the end of the war, but the americans turned them away because of a previous agreement of returning all russian prisoners back to russia. pity to what happened to them when they got back to stalin

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Right, come on, get my name of that quote if ur gonna thrown words like "idiot" around after it!!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Right, come on, get my name of that quote if ur gonna thrown words like "idiot" around after it!!

oops

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Originally posted by h@x0r What is it about our northen neighbors that so many folks have a Nosevere brain frostbite??? I'm sorry - all this nonsene about following orders. I'd say that those who were just following orders constituted less than 10% of the total force. This also included the cowards who believed in cause but didn't want to die for it and surrendered to the allies whinnying "We follow orders! we don't want to kill!" ... The rest were ready to die for what they believed in - Arian nation. Sure, just like in any army - you have "soft hearted" soldiers or those who don't share the ideology. However, I find it hard to justify the execution of women and children as "those were my orders". personally, faced with a choice - I'd rather shoot my commanding officer and take my chances with the consequences than kill innocent beings. But that's just me... Of course, history also tells us of legions of Ukrainian soldiers who joined German forces to fight the "Bolsheviks" and "Kikes"... Those were probably not subject or too opposed to german orders, being volunteers and all... Ooops, sorry - breached a sensitive subject here.

Northern neighbours....severe brain frostbite.....interesting...

On battlefields soldiers fight for their lives. There's no remorse by one side or the other about casualties because the combatants are merely fighting for their lives. Luckier, or more skillful, or maybe better led soldiers survive. They were thrust in harm's way by powers higher than them and only worried about survival when faced with an enemy trying to kill them. The emerging stories shed a better light on things and I think that gives us a better understanding down at the soldier level of what actually happened when the waring masses collided.


[[[smoke]]]

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What is it about our northen neighbors that so many folks have a Nosevere brain frostbite??? I'm sorry - all this nonsene about following orders. I'd say that those who were just following orders constituted less than 10% of the total force. This also included the cowards who believed in cause but didn't want to die for it and surrendered to the allies whinnying "We follow orders! we don't want to kill!" ... The rest were ready to die for what they believed in - Arian nation. Sure, just like in any army - you have "soft hearted" soldiers or those who don't share the ideology. However, I find it hard to justify the execution of women and children as "those were my orders". personally, faced with a choice - I'd rather shoot my commanding officer and take my chances with the consequences than kill innocent beings. But that's just me... Of course, history also tells us of legions of Ukrainian soldiers who joined German forces to fight the "Bolsheviks" and "Kikes"... Those were probably not subject or too opposed to german orders, being volunteers and all... Ooops, sorry - breached a sensitive subject here.

First of all, the motivation behind a soldier following orders is irrelevant.

Second of all, the Ukrainian nationalists fought against Stalin's tyranny to gain independence for Ukraine from Soviet rule.

Third of all, are you jewish?

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Originally posted by dj_bas wow awesome!! that's way bigger than mine

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Originally posted by zig Northern neighbours....severe brain frostbite.....interesting...

he's obviously not taking into account hats.

hey h@@xor, not every german was wanting the extermination of jews (and i'm wearing earmuffs). next time you want to say that soldiers were fighting for an arian nation, translate that into the 21st century's usage of "freedom". you don't hate freedom, do you?

[upon review, i hereby realize the flame potential from the coulter fans in the audience.. but i don't give a shit, it's the friggin truth]

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Originally posted by Cal Here's something from the Forrest Gump script A DRILL SERGEANT is in Forrest's face as Forrest stands in line with the other recruits. DRILL SERGEANT Gump! What's your sole purpose in this Army? FORREST To do whatever you tell me, Drill Sergeant! DRILL SERGEANT Godamnit, Gump! You're a goddamned genius! That's the most outstanding answer I've ever heard. You must have a godamned I.Q. of a hundred and sixty! You are godamned gifted, Private Gump! Just think about that for a minute

It is fine to apply this to soldiers who are already in the army, but soldiers who join the army during a war time are fighting for something, not just taking orders. Look at the influx of soldiers after Pearl Harbor bombing in the US, they wanted to fight the japs that did that to our country and wanted to kill the "krauts" in germany (and this was before anyone even knew of the holocaust). The same is true with Germany, their standing army before world war II was much smaller then they suddenly had millions and millions of troops willing to take over the world.

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: are u an idiot?? it is true, that in the beginning of the war, the drug of victory and of the fuhrer bringing victory upon the soldiers did intoxicate the soldiers. many might have been fighting for the fuhrer in the beginning. but, 1941 onwards, the vast majority of soldiers fought for each other and for their country, and no longer for the fuhrer. the SS Einsatzgruppen were the ones carrying out aryan purification of europe. not the wehrmacht or waffen SS.

You can make the claim about the Army soldiers following orders but remember most regular army personnel did not participate in the "final solution" they were simply fighting on the front lines. It was the SS and Reserve Police Battalions who guarded the trains and rounded up the jews. A very interesting book on the subject is
Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland which attempts to explain how average people (this is the reserve we are talking about) can be turn into heartless killers of innocents. Another very interesting book is On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society which discusses killing is not specific to the Holocaust or WW2.

Also, as with nearly any war where the soldiers do not particularly believe in the cause, they quickly begin fighting for not only themselves but also their friends.

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Originally posted by auujay You can make the claim about the Army soldiers following orders but remember most regular army personnel did not participate in the "final solution" they were simply fighting on the front lines. It was the SS and Reserve Police Battalions who guarded the trains and rounded up the jews. A very interesting book on the subject is Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland which attempts to explain how average people (this is the reserve we are talking about) can be turn into heartless killers of innocents. Another very interesting book is On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society which discusses killing is not specific to the Holocaust or WW2. Also, as with nearly any war where the soldiers do not particularly believe in the cause, they quickly begin fighting for not only themselves but also their friends.

good point made. but, regarding the SS. many veterans from the waffen-SS have tried, usually to no avail to separate themselves from the einsatzgruppen and police battalions of the SS because the Waffen SS were combat soldiers, fighting just like a soldier. sure there were atrocities committed, but all sides committed them, its just the waffen-ss have been singled out 1. because they lost the war, 2. because the SS organization ran the concentration camps. 3. because the waffen-ss were usually the most feared and fierce soldiers to fight.

i get hooked on stories of allied soldiers describing the anxious bahavior of their comrades when they knew they would be going up against an SS unit.

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