quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus From your article: "You can't brainwash people for four years that Israel is an illegitimate country and that Israelis are like the Nazis and that Israelis are monsters and expect that nothing will happen to Jews."

Yea but it was the Israeli minister's advisor that said it! Its not an admission from the paper!

quote:

Look, just because you don't think it doesn't make others not think it.

Ok let me rephrase that...it isn't any different to any other form of racism (dont gimme that religion + race crap cos its exactly the same over here for asians being synominous with Islam)

quote:

Because your muslim populations attack Jews it is justifable to have anti-semtism?

Sorry but when have I ever said anti-semitism was ok? It is the same as any other form of racism and I dont think any of that is ok (except against the French)

quote:

Who do you think would most attribute the correlation between IDF are dogs and Jews are dogs, British muslims or Anglo-saxons?

I think this is a silly example and not one that you can back up (and the left in this country hate Israel as much as, in your opinion, the Muslims do)

quote:

Start understanding that muslims are part of your society and hence part of the responsbility of your society.

Muslims in the Uk make up approximately 1% - 2% of the population, my point was as this is the section of society most anti-semitic acts are attributed to, it is hardly representative of the wider population is it? I hear racist things said about asians nearly everyday. It is a problem. Anti-semitism is practically unheard of but the minute examples you do get (racism is unfortunately innevitable and no race is immune) get blown up by the media to make it out its summat its not. In my life, I have heard somebody tell one anti-semitic joke (and even then he only told it cos he didn't understand it). Dont get me wrong, I'm sure there are people who just hate Jews, but there are a shit load more people that dont like Muslims/asians and that is where the problem in this country lies...there is probably more anti-semitism in your country than there is in mine!

quote:

This isn't true either - there is something special about the Jews because they are not only an ethnic group but a religious group too.

Sorry but why the hell would that make any difference? In that respect Jews are no different to Muslims as in this country the media/left have invented a new "ism" - Islamaphobia which is racism towards asians/Muslims (and Islamaphobia is about as bullshit as anti-semitism, they are the same thing)

quote:

I have met people in the USA who love Jews but think black people should be enslaved. Not all racist have to be consistant.

True in this country you will hear people saying they dont mind black people but they cant stand 'Pakis' (yet I have yet to hear anyone single out Jews as the one race they hate...)

quote:

Originally posted by zig I think its very rare that you will find racists that are in any way exclusive as to the race they hate

And I think its very rare you will find a racist that isn't exclusive of one or several races they hate.

quote:

And as for people who translate the IDF are dogs into jews are dogs i fail to grasp the connection myself....

You are educated, you are western, and you think philosophically and politically. Most people don't. It isn't hard to understand why you arent' capable to comprehend that other people simply think in different ways.

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Argh LeChuck!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Yea but it was the Israeli minister's advisor that said it! Its not an admission from the paper!

I realize that, however do you believe his words are true? Or can you see why some people would agree with what he says?

(BTW the Israeli minister, Sharansky, is quiet fimilar with 'real' anti-semitism thanks to his expereinces as a Jew in the USSR).

quote:

Ok let me rephrase that...it isn't any different to any other form of racism

I'll agree with this point with the excepton that is racism against Jews.
Racism is racism.
Anti-semitism is racism against Jews.

quote:

Muslims in the Uk make up approximately 1% - 2% of the population, my point was as this is the section of society most anti-semitic acts are attributed to, it is hardly representative of the wider population is it?

I believe a statistic was thrown out somewhere that only 60% of anti-semtic attacks in the UK are attribuable to muslims. I'd say its a larger problem than just the muslim community.

But even if it is, why are the muslims attacking the Jews in the UK?
The muslims don't attack the Jews in the USA...

quote:

I hear racist things said about asians nearly everyday. It is a problem. Anti-semitism is practically unheard of but the minute examples you do get (racism is unfortunately innevitable and no race is immune) get blown up by the media to make it out its summat its not. In my life, I have heard somebody tell one anti-semitic joke (and even then he only told it cos he didn't understand it). Dont get me wrong, I'm sure there are people who just hate Jews, but there are a shit load more people that dont like Muslims/asians and that is where the problem in this country lies...there is probably more anti-semitism in your country than there is in mine!

You are comparing apples to oranges.

From what you described and from my knowledge of the situation 'racism' against your Asians for being Muslim or just poor and foriegn is more like 'discrimination' than racism. People don't like them, people prefer them not to be there, and people discriminate against them and make fun against them.

This is similar to how mexicans and blacks are still treated in the USA in certain areas. Although it is a miniority that discriminates, its still a noticable and substantial portion.

However by in no portion of UK/European society is largely anit-Muslim or anti-Asian. There is however a portion of UK/European society that is distinctly and largely anti-Jew/anti-Israel.

If you don't want to take my word for it let the facts speak for themselves.
In the UK how many Mosques have been tourched/attacked/vandalized in 2004?
In the UK how many muslims have been violantly attacked in 2004?

There have been 304 attacks against Jews in the UK during 2004.


Tell me, do you think the people who hate these Jews hate other races equally? If so, where are the attacks on Christian churchs, buddist templs, etc?

Just because people don't always make connections, i.e. UK = Evil War on Iraq.
Doesn't mean they don't make other connections elsewhere, i.e. Jews = Evil Israeli.

I'll let your own country's spokesman speak for me on this behalf:

quote:

"In a Sunday interview with the The Observer, however, Trevor Phillips, chairman of Britain's Commission for Racial Equality, warned of a growing hatred of Jews throughout the country. He also declared that Britain's powerful elite remains infected with a "deep strain of anti-Semitism." "I think we ought not to kid ourselves that this is all about conflict between people who have a beef about Palestine and Israel. This is also about old-fashioned hatred of Jews and people who believe Jews are an international conspiracy," he said. "Let's not make any mistake about this. As well as on the streets, there is still within the British establishment a deep strain of anti-Semitism, that somehow regards Jews as not quite pukka, not quite 'our kind of people.' We tend to think that, because there are many successful businesspeople, Jews have somehow overcome the prejudice."

source:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satell...d=1106450585777

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quote:

Originally posted by zig And besides havnt the Isrealis being trying for years to brainwash the rest of the world that we are anti semites if we dont agree with them......

true.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus not this again. [bangs forehead into wall] [repeatedly]

you should open a dictionary and look up "semetic". then bang your head

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z you should open a dictionary and look up "semetic". then bang your head

The section of my university's Middle East section is called the 'semitic section'...

2 entries found for semite.
Sem·ite

1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2. A Jew.
3. Bible. A descendant of Shem.


[Back-formation from Semitic.]

[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

semite

adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Semites; "Semite peoples" [syn: Semite, Semitic] n : a member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Middle East and northern Africa [syn: Semite]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z you should open a dictionary and look up "semetic". then bang your head

[bangs forehead into wall] [repeatedly]

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Argh LeChuck!

Cool innit?!

quote:

I realize that, however do you believe his words are true? Or can you see why some people would agree with what he says?

No I completely disagree otherwise I would be anti-semitic if what he says is true...

quote:

I'll agree with this point with the excepton that is racism against Jews. Racism is racism. Anti-semitism is racism against Jews.

But why have a different term? All racism is equally bad, but having different terms for different racists leaves it open for people to justify one over the other. What is coming out of Israel seems to imply that racism against Jews is bad (correct btw) but then they go on about Arabs in a completely racism way making generalisations like they all wanna kill us etc etc...racism is racism and when different groups try to make out that the racism towards them is worse than any other kind that is bad imo

quote:

I believe a statistic was thrown out somewhere that only 60% of anti-semtic attacks in the UK are attribuable to muslims. I'd say its a larger problem than just the muslim community.

I dont doubt that anti-semiticism is confined to Muslims (in fact the BNP on the BBC documentary make remarks about Michael Howard being a Jew - altho to be fair, Michael Howard is a tw@t whatever his background!) So, 40% of approx 100 makes 40...40 anti-semtic acts is hardly what you would describe as 1) a problem 2) an anti-semitic society (in fact even when you include Muslim anti-semitism you will get the same conclusion)

quote:

But even if it is, why are the muslims attacking the Jews in the UK? The muslims don't attack the Jews in the USA...

Well thats quite a bold statement to make and unless you can prove that I will remain sceptical. As for anti-semitic attacks, the UK had 96 (or around 300 when you include stuff like grafitti), and I would estimate the USA to have a greater number

quote:

From what you described and from my knowledge of the situation 'racism' against your Asians for being Muslim or just poor and foriegn is more like 'discrimination' than racism. People don't like them, people prefer them not to be there, and people discriminate against them and make fun against them. This is similar to how mexicans and blacks are still treated in the USA in certain areas. Although it is a miniority that discriminates, its still a noticable and substantial portion. However by in no portion of UK/European society is largely anit-Muslim or anti-Asian. There is however a portion of UK/European society that is distinctly and largely anti-Jew/anti-Israel.

Sorry but your out of your depth now...if you go onto the BBC or Guardian (free news) and search for Islamaphobia you might get the right idea but what you have written above is simply false.

quote:

If you don't want to take my word for it let the facts speak for themselves. In the UK how many Mosques have been tourched/attacked/vandalized in 2004?

No idea but I'm sure you can tell me?

quote:

In the UK how many muslims have been violantly attacked in 2004? There have been 304 attacks against Jews in the UK during 2004.

Oh deary deary me Yoepus...what have you done here?! I have no idea how many idea how many Muslims have been racially attacked but 1) the amount will be many many times higher than on Jews, 2) when have there been 304 attacks? You wanna read things a little more clearly!

quote:

Tell me, do you think the people who hate these Jews hate other races equally? If so, where are the attacks on Christian churchs, buddist templs, etc?

We have Bhuddist temples?! Anyway, I think you need to branch out more than just consentrating on places of worship to more general acts of racism such as violence etc. I get the impression you think the Jews are the most discriminated ethnic minority in the UK and if you think that you are either an idiot (which i dont think you are) or you simply know sod all about racism in the UK except that which you are told about, which is almost certainly anti-semitism...Israeli papers are not gonna have articles on the rise of Islamaphobia in the UK are they? Yet they might very well have articles on the rise of anti-semtism in the UK. If you seriously think the uk is anti-semitic and you think Jews are the most discriminated section of society then you are simply wrong on all accounts. You are no expert on the UK and you continue to prove that. You can find me all thhe examples you want of attacks against Jews (by practically one tiny section of society) and I will provide ten times more examples of attacks against blacks or asians...

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Cool innit?!

Yargh. I wish I could grow a beard

quote:

No I completely disagree otherwise I would be anti-semitic if what he says is true...

How so?

quote:

But why have a different term? All racism is equally bad, but having different terms for different racists leaves it open for people to justify one over the other.

Because historically Europe didn't hate everyone - they hated the Jews. For about a 1000 years or so. Go figure if a word develops for it after that timespan.

Don't get me wrong, Europeans hated a lot of people - if you were a foreigner or gypsy they hated you - they just hated to the Jews more, thats all.

And now I think the term is a good one - because Jews have been the only race that was the national policy of a European nation to exterminate. I think the word anti-semitism reminds us of this and that if we are not careful with the Jews, how can you expect anybody to be careful with other races?

quote:

What is coming out of Israel seems to imply that racism against Jews is bad (correct btw) but then they go on about Arabs in a completely racism way making generalisations like they all wanna kill us etc etc...

First, its not only coming out of Israel.
Second, its not racism when its true

quote:

racism is racism and when different groups try to make out that the racism towards them is worse than any other kind that is bad imo

Well what is the racism is worse towards one group than another? Should calling somebody a niger be equal to firebombing a mosque?

quote:

No idea but I'm sure you can tell me?

Actually I can't. The last attack on Mosque in the UK was in 2002. I wasn't able to find anything in the news since than about UK attacks on Muslims.

quote:

1) the amount will be many many times higher than on Jews,

Prove it.

quote:

2) when have there been 304 attacks?

I have the link for the source in that post above.

quote:

We have Bhuddist temples?! Anyway, I think you need to branch out more than just consentrating on places of worship to more general acts of racism such as violence etc. I get the impression you think the Jews are the most discriminated ethnic minority in the UK and if you think that you are either an idiot (which i dont think you are) or you simply know sod all about racism in the UK except

No see, I wouldn't say that the Jews are the most discriminated against in the UK. I would however say that they are perhaps one of the most hated (as witnessed by attacks on them).

quote:

Israeli papers are not gonna have articles on the rise of Islamaphobia in the UK are they?

I don't think its as a big a problem as you make it:
A search on BBC.CO.UK produced 30 results for the search term "islamophobia".
A search on BBC.CO.UK produced 102 results for the search term "anti-semitism".

Regardless of the frequencey of anti-semitism, 30 results for islamophobia doesn't seem to be the big racial tension you are making it out to be. In comparison a search on cnn.com returned 1036 results for the term "Mexican". Surely not all of those deal with US Mexican relation/discrimination - but I can bet you a lot more than either 30 or 100 articles do.

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Yargh. I wish I could grow a beard

Ah...your 14? Should have guessed really!

quote:

How so?

Well I have many problems with Israeli policy and if what Ariel Sharon is trying to push on us all, I would be considered anti-semitic...

quote:

Because historically Europe didn't hate everyone - they hated the Jews. For about a 1000 years or so. Go figure if a word develops for it after that timespan. Don't get me wrong, Europeans hated a lot of people - if you were a foreigner or gypsy they hated you - they just hated to the Jews more, thats all.

Why did Europeans hate the Jews more than they hated asians? Becuase there were no asians!!! Racists hate whoever is in their country who look different. Which is why today, in the uk, it is the Muslims that are the most discriminated against and not the Jews

quote:

Second, its not racism when its true

Tell that to Sharon!

quote:

Well what is the racism is worse towards one group than another? Should calling somebody a niger be equal to firebombing a mosque?

God you come out with some shit mate! Shall I tell you what is equal to calling someone a ******? Calling someone a Paki. And shall I tell you what is equal to firebombing a mosque? Firebombing somewhere where black people congregate.

quote:

No see, I wouldn't say that the Jews are the most discriminated against in the UK. I would however say that they are perhaps one of the most hated (as witnessed by attacks on them). I don't think its as a big a problem as you make it: A search on BBC.CO.UK produced 30 results for the search term "islamophobia". A search on BBC.CO.UK produced 102 results for the search term "anti-semitism". Regardless of the frequencey of anti-semitism, 30 results for islamophobia doesn't seem to be the big racial tension you are making it out to be. In comparison a search on cnn.com returned 1036 results for the term "Mexican". Surely not all of those deal with US Mexican relation/discrimination - but I canbet you a lot more than either 30 or 100 articles do.

The thing is Yoepus, you have got this silly idea into your head that in Europe, the Jews are the most hated race (and fair enuf maybe u are going on the past) but u have to realise racist people hate the ethnic minorities that are in the country at the time. Early last century and before it was the Jews because it was only Jews there. Today, it is the Muslims that take the brunt of racist behaviour (black people come into it but they didnt really have their own culture like religion etc that the Jews and Muslims have).....

Now, you put in the term Islamaphobia and Anti-Semitic and from putting those words into the search you proved your conclusions?! Honestly I dispair sometimes!

Now go back to the search and type in "racially motivated" and you go and read every single hit that comes up and tell me if they were talking about Jews or Asians...

Ok, so I dont expect you to read the 100+ articles that come up but maybe you'd like to read this one I found?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4181959.stm

Hmmm…so last year there were 4,728 racially motivated crimes brought to court (3,616 resulting in prosecutions) But if only 95 Jewish people were attacked…ok I’m not good at maths, you’ll have to give me the percentage of Jewish people caught up in racially motivated crimes (something like 2.009306261% at a guess). Now 44% of the 4,728 racially motivated crimes were committed against Muslims… Also, where the religion was the actual motivation of the crime (of which there were 44 incidents last year) 22 were against Muslims, 8 were against Christians and 5 (five) were against Jews………

Agree with George on this one.

The only time I even hear about jews is when they are complaining about anti-sematism.

Never heard of any attacks, vandalism or anything.

While that doesn't mean there isn't some form of group of people who don't like them. I'd say, as George says it isn't a real problem.

In fact all this anti "anti-sematism" attention will just flag them up as a target population for the BNP. I'm quite serious about that by the way.

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