quote:

Originally posted by imokruok With tears rolling down her eyes, a veiled Iraqi woman shows off her finger stained with blue ink and a small card reading 'Elect Iraq ' after she cast her vote in a polling station in Amman, January 30, 2005. REUTERS/Ali Jarekji (beautiful)

I truly hope that the election process works for those people!

That is a beautiful picture, btw.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X [color=orange]Damn, that's one lucky Iraqi! I mean, he has a computer in which to blog, to thoroughly research the Iraqi candidates (I'm sure he wishes.) He's l33t, just for the fact that he's among the 0.002% of Iraqi's that can afford extravagances such as computers and internet.

Well holy crap, less than .002% of Iraqis owned computers... UNDER SADDAM... now that is a compelling statistic about 2005 don't ya think? Pre-war, during sanctions and all that... Gee, maybe you could give us cell phone onership stats under Saddam and then claim that it's the same today... That would be classic

Guess you've missed all those internet cafes that have been springing up all over Iraq, huh?

www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-20-bloggers_x.htm
http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/irq/irq_44_3_eng.txt

Those should get you started on your quest for enightenment... next time, try using post-Saddam stats so you don't look like a 'tard...

Last edited by mps242 on Jan-30-2005 at 20:46

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok Notably quiet around here this morning! Perhaps because even the BBC has used the word "success." God bless these people:

Its still early we'll find out soon enough. Even if the entire country comes out to vote doesn't mean it will be a success. With so many canidates I don't know how anyone could make an informed decision. I expect the voting results to either be totally scattered across each canidate, or very clustered to the few popular ones.

And lets not forget that those pictures you're seeing of the long lines don't really mean much. They could be concentrated on specific areas of Iraq and don't represent the country as a whole.

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok With tears rolling down her eyes, a veiled Iraqi woman shows off her finger stained with blue ink and a small card reading 'Elect Iraq ' after she cast her vote in a polling station in Amman, January 30, 2005. REUTERS/Ali Jarekji (beautiful)

So photoshopped. See "A staged photo in Iraq...."

Last edited by josh4 on Jan-30-2005 at 20:58

quote:

Originally posted by mps242 Well holy crap, less than .002% of Iraqis owned computers... UNDER SADDAM... now that is a compelling statistic about 2005 don't ya think? Pre-war, during sanctions and all that... Gee, maybe you could give us cell phone onership stats under Saddam and then claim that it's the same today... That would be classic Guess you've missed all those internet cafes that have been springing up all over Iraq, huh? www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-20-bloggers_x.htm http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl?archive/irq/irq_44_3_eng.txt Those should get you started on your quest for enightenment... next time, try using post-Saddam stats so you don't look like a 'tard...

The stats that I used were from 2002. Yeah, I'm sure war torn Iraq's communications infrastructure has seen a proverbial renaissance in the last 2+ years, given how the country's telecommunications infrastructure was pretty much shot to shit BEFORE we started bombing them into submission.

Yeah, I'm a 'tard that doesn't even know how to post a simple link.


From your link attempt:

quote:

Fadhil's blog, iraqthemodel.blogspot.com, tells of his life and the lives of his two brothers. One brother also is a dentist, and the other is a pediatrician. "We wanted to help bridge the gap, not just between the U.S. and Iraq, but with the entire Islamic world," says Ali Fadhil, 34, the pediatrician. The brothers write their blog at the Twin Towers Internet Cafe, named after the Petronas Towers in Malaysia. On a recent day, all 10 computer stations were occupied at the cafe, where Internet time is 1,500 Iraqi dinars an hour (about $1). That's pricey in Iraq, where the average salary for a doctor is about $150 a month, up from $20 under Saddam's regime. There are about 30 Iraqi bloggers in Baghdad, plus a few other blogs written by Iraqis abroad. Faisa Jarrar, a 40-something engineer and a Shiite, has maintained the family blog. She works on a PC in her home in western Baghdad. She has criticized what she sees as heavy-handed tactics by U.S. forces in parts of Baghdad and especially in Fallujah, where hundreds of Iraqis and dozens of Marines recently were killed in a two-week uprising. "Dear Raed," she wrote to her son April 7. "Americans are gathering near the entrance of our neighborhood. Tanks and soldiers with machine guns. They look terrifying. ... We will spend the night in the 'safe room,' the one we used to hide in last year during the war. ... Only god can protect us from what's happening. These days are much darker than the days of Saddam Hussein."

Those bloggers make up a very small percentage of the population. Are you actually assuming that the majority of Iraqi's are Engineers, Dentists, Pediatrician's, or other high paid professionals? Riiiiiiight! So yeah, it sounds like a good portion of the Iraqi people are online now At $1 an hour, most Iraqi's would have to work for weeks to afford just a few hours time online.

___________________

quote:

"Learn, child, to catch a hint through whatever agency it may be given. 'Sermons may be preached through stones." - Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, Letters from the Masters of Wisdom, first series, p. 74, letter 31

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok With tears rolling down her eyes, a veiled Iraqi woman shows off her finger stained with blue ink and a small card reading 'Elect Iraq ' after she cast her vote in a polling station in Amman, January 30, 2005. REUTERS/Ali Jarekji (beautiful)

1400+ lives lost
300+ US civilian lives lost in Iraq
1000's of US families directly affected by the US lives lost
hundreds of billions of dollars in costs

yup it was worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by imokruok Notably quiet around here this morning! Perhaps because even the BBC has used the word "success."

Woah there, let's not get all triumphal just yet. These elections were always going to happen at one point or another, the fact that they occrred without much bloodshed (well, in relative terms) is just a bonus. Ultimately this is just another milestone, like the bringing down of the statue in Baghdad square and it still hasn't solved the most pressing issues that face the country.

The most serious issue, of course, is the perceived marginalisation of the Sunni people in Iraq (which is the cause of the majority of the violence in the country) that I spoke of in my earlier post and these elections probably will not do much to ease that tension. According to a Zogby poll released just prior to the election, only 9% of Sunni people said they were "likely" to or "definitely" going to vote:

quote:

Will you vote in the Jan. 30 election? (Percentage saying "Likely" or "Definitely") Shiite 80% Kurd 57% Sunni 9%

http://www.zogby.com/Soundbites/ReadClips.dbm?ID=10796

The actual polling data from the election still isn't clear. So far, the participation rates released correspond only to the number of registered voters, not elligible voters. While we can say with some degree of certainty - if only from second hand media accoutns - that brilliant amounts of people turned up to vote in the North and in the South, the picture is less definitive in the Sunni areas, where many media reports paint the picture of more barren voting booths. In any case, keep in mind that any report that tells you that a high percentage of registered Sunni voters turned out to vote is misleading: if only 9% of the Sunni population bothered to register in anticipation of voting, then the percentage of those people who actually turned out to vote is largely irrelevant given that so few people - in real terms - have actually voted.

To just add to this degree of doubt, the Iraqi Election Commission is, mystifyingly, refusing to disclose voting numbers in two of the biggest Sunni provinces:

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The commission declined to announce figures for the Ninawah (Mosul) governorate, as well as for Al-Anbar. Officials said that the figures for voter turnout in Al-Anbar should come as a "big surprise" once they are released later. The two governorates have strong Sunni populations.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/l...130-rferl04.htm

Given all this, there must still be some doubt about the degree to which the Sunni population have participated in this election, which will detract from the legitimacy of the final result once the votes are tallied.

The possible implications of this were laid out in a recent Reuters article:

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Many Shi'ite and Kurdish voters braved the insurgents' threats of an election day bloodbath. But in Iraq's Sunni Arab heartland, where violence has been fiercest, few people ventured out and some polling centres remained shuttered. A low Sunni turnout could undermine the credibility of Iraq's first election since Saddam Hussein was toppled in a U.S.-led invasion in April 2003. Many fear that instead of quelling the anti-American insurgency, the poll could foment sectarian strife, delaying any withdrawal of U.S.-led forces from the country. [...] Polling sites were deserted in some Sunni areas north and west of Baghdad where many boycotted the election.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticl...&storyID=663594

So while it's great to the the Iraqi people finally have their day in the sun and while we're all hoping that this is the first step on the way to a peaceful, democratic Iraq, please keep in mind that this election is just one more step and - as Condi Rice said - there is still a lot more hard work to be done. I'm not being negative in my appraisal here, or trying to detract from the hard work of all the people who risked life and limb to make this happen, I'm just being realistic: let's not go patting ourselves on the back until the job has been seen all the way through.

___________________
http://eschatonnow.blogspot.com/

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 So photoshopped. See "A staged photo in Iraq...."

How so? Please elaborate on your findings.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka How so? Please elaborate on your findings.

Shhhh...it's the new posting fad didn't you hear??
You know, claming to know facts when there's nothing to disclaim...
It makes you appear smarter...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Dispite what people might say about the break-down of the Iraqi turnout percentages, it seems to be the same as any American election turnout.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Renegade.. thanks for the informative post

___________________
"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X The stats that I used were from 2002. Yeah, I'm sure war torn Iraq's communications infrastructure has seen a proverbial renaissance in the last 2+ years, given how the country's telecommunications infrastructure was pretty much shot to shit BEFORE we started bombing them into submission.

As a matter of fact is has undergone a renaissance, but I guess you wouldn't really know since you're still quoting stats from before the war... Don't feel bad though, only .002% of Iraqis who owned computers were able to log onto the internet and find the information that you've ignored...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-02-08-iraq-cell-phones_x.htm <= oopsie, did I delete the [url] bit again... doh!

But hey, I guess the fact that there are more cell phone subscribers in Iraq today than there were total telephone subscribers pre-war doesn't mean anything because you'd claim that in 2002 there were zero cell phone users in Iraq, right?

Of course, you'd probably also claim that there is no sattelite television in Iraq because in 2002, satellite dishes in Iraq were banned by Saddam, right?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0429/p06s01-woiq.html
http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/n...ArticleID=91579
http://www.eetimes.com/article/prin...taxonomyID=2517


Of course, all of this is just to show you that your snide comments at the beginning of this thread were basically you being a msartass without having a clue what you were talking about... Oh, and just for your information, as of about 6 months ago, 12% of Iraqis reported that they owned a computer... Imagine that...

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2...3-iraqnet_x.htm
http://interviews.slashdot.org/arti...&tid=185&tid=99

quote:

Yeah, I'm a 'tard that doesn't even know how to post a simple link.

Just for you

quote:

Those bloggers make up a very small percentage of the population.

Gosh, really? And this whole time I thought that the 30 or so Iraqis who happen to run english blogs were a clear majority of the 25 million Iraqis...

quote:

Are you actually assuming that the majority of Iraqi's are Engineers, Dentists, Pediatrician's, or other high paid professionals? Riiiiiiight! So yeah, it sounds like a good portion of the Iraqi people are online now

6 months ago it was reported that 6% of Iraqis have home access to the internet, and 2% use it frequently. Internet cafes are springing up all over the place and are always packed. But hey, you just keep that head firmly planeted up that ass of yours, and pretend that any iraqi blogger must be one of the .0002% that owned computers before the war...

quote:

At $1 an hour, most Iraqi's would have to work for weeks to afford just a few hours time online.

What's your point? Is it that you've realized that your little remarks about how a blogger must be oh so lucky to own a computer (which he probably doesn't even own, he's probably writing from a cyber cafe) were totally basless and retarded that you've now switched to "well, the really poor can't afford it"? The really poor in EVERY country can't afford the internet, why would Iraq be any different?

Of course, the fact that a large portion of Iraqis have access to the internet, international sattelite television, international phone access, local newspapers, and radio completely belies your nonsensical assertion that:

quote:

Free Press has everything to do with an informed population. Iraq is devoid of a free press - and only wealthy Iraqi's have internet access (Internet is another instrument for the dissemination of information, if you haven't figured that out by now.) Just as I had previously posted the links to information regarding some of the parties and candidates running in this Iraqi election, 99.99% of all Iraqi's lack the means to access that information.

Even with all the gizmos and gadgets that bring information into the home, 90% of Europeans know jack shit about the EU constitution they are going to be voting on...

quote:

An uninformed population trying to make an informed voting decision equates to a charade of an election.

I guess we'll hear the same criticisms coming form you when that vote comes up, eh?