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Originally posted by BadBadNeil However being the largest religious population on earth

where did you hear that?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z where did you hear that?

it's actually the second largest. 23% of the world is Islamic. however, that does not invalidate anything that badbadneil has said up to this point.

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Originally posted by George Smiley No josh's problem is that he thinks every Muslim supports bin Laden...

regardless of what you think of the impact of "media and ignorant people" has on Islamicist world wide, the fact remains that these very few have the ability to impact thousands maybe millions through blind martyrdom. an embassy, a mosque, a trainstation, an airport, a marketplace. they are all fair game to the Bin Laden faithful. and those few are millions. so few that impact is not relative, but devastating.

Pew Study of Global Attitudes, as of the fall of 2004, in Pakistan, Jordan, Morocco, and Turkey, anti-Americanism was shown to be pervasive. Osama bin Laden was viewed favorably by large percentages in Pakistan (65 percent), Jordan (55 percent) and Morocco (45 percent).

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Originally posted by Q5echo it's actually the second largest. 23% of the world is Islamic. however, that does not invalidate anything that badbadneil has said up to this point.

No what invalidates everything he has said up to this point is everything he has said up to this point!

Did all the Christian leaders in the world speak out against Christian fundamentalism when Timmothy McVie blew that building in Oklahoma up? Do you think they really had to? No because you know what Christians are likely to think about that. However, you dont know Muslims and you dont know their culture, you are making assumptions based on prejudice which stems from this climate of fear our governments have created in order to pursue otherwise unpersuable policy objectives, and you, badneil and most of your fellow country men are falling for it hook line and sinker...

How come you have Sunni religious leaders calling for a election boycott in Iraq you get a 2% turnout and then when you get shiite religious leaders who declare voting is their religious responsibility you get a 70% turnout? Security alone didn't stop those people, they listened to their leaders, shiites braved death threats, daily bombings and mutiliations,just like the sunnis to vote. Sure the people wanted to vote but wanting to vote and obeying what the religious leaders said are two separate things. Afterwards the sunni religious leaders declared it was a mistake in asking for a boycott as they screwed themselves.

I should have ignored this thread like the rest. Sorry my points must be wrong because I am an American Christian who must be brainwashed. There is no way to ever make a valid point in here because that gets thrown out every single time.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil How come you have Sunni religious leaders calling for a election boycott in Iraq you get a 2% turnout and then when you get shiite religious leaders who declare voting is their religious responsibility you get a 70% turnout? Security alone didn't stop those people, they listened to their leaders, shiites braved death threats, daily bombings and mutiliations,just like the sunnis to vote. Sure the people wanted to vote but wanting to vote and obeying what the religious leaders said are two separate things. Afterwards the sunni religious leaders declared it was a mistake in asking for a boycott as they screwed themselves. I should have ignored this thread like the rest. Sorry my points must be wrong because I am an American Christian who must be brainwashed. There is no way to ever make a valid point in here because that gets thrown out every single time.

Hey dont get upset!

The thing is (and this is where I form my opinions from on this particular subject) is that there is an assumption that if you live in the Middle East or if you are Muslim, then you are automatically very religious (like evangelicals in America). But it simply never enters anyones minds that maybe people in the Middle East (or Muslims in general) maybe as unreligious as the rest of us. Technically, I am a Christian but only because at the age of 0 I didn't really have a say in being Christened (and my parents only did it cos its tradition when you have a baby) you shouldn't form an opinion of somebody just because they belong to a religion that they are fundamentalists cos I honestly dont think its true at all and only a very tiny tiny minority support bin Laden (and anti-Americanism does not equal support for him either)

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Originally posted by George Smiley Did all the Christian leaders in the world speak out against Christian fundamentalism when Timmothy McVie blew that building in Oklahoma up?

yes. they did.

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Do you think they really had to?

what does it matter whether they "had to" or not? there is not endless cycle of senseless suicidal violence among Christians on the level magnitude we have seen in the last two decades.

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No because you know what Christians are likely to think about that. However, you dont know Muslims and you dont know their culture, you are making assumptions based on prejudice which stems from this climate of fear our governments have created in order to pursue otherwise unpersuable policy objectives, and you, badneil and most of your fellow country men are falling for it hook line and sinker...

oh, it's just my country and countrymen that has fallen for it. no one else lives in fear of being vaporized or shot in the name of Allah anywhere else in the world. all these Muslim leaders around the world that condemn the methonds of jihadist are imagining this. and if it's not fear, then what?

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Originally posted by Q5echo yes. they did. what does it matter whether they "had to" or not? there is not endless cycle of senseless suicidal violence among Christians on the level magnitude we have seen in the last two decades. oh, it's just my country and countrymen that has fallen for it. no one else lives in fear of being vaporized or shot in the name of Allah anywhere else in the world. all these Muslim leaders around the world that condemn the methonds of jihadist are imagining this. and if it's not fear, then what?

Well I was refering to you personally and the society you live in which happens to be America. Also, maybe in America the Christian leaders criticised, on behalf of the Christians, McVie but they sure as hell didn't in my country (or anywhere else as far as I know)

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil How come you have Sunni religious leaders calling for a election boycott in Iraq you get a 2% turnout and then when you get shiite religious leaders who declare voting is their religious responsibility you get a 70% turnout? Security alone didn't stop those people, they listened to their leaders, shiites braved death threats, daily bombings and mutiliations,just like the sunnis to vote.

Look the issue I have with you using that as an example in support of the statement that OBL should have been more widely condemed by Muslim leaders is that your making it sound like he is a respected cleric or something.

He isn't.

He has nothing to do with Iraq or the Iraqi elections (apart from any terror he's incited).

He has nothing to do with Islam, he mearly happens to be muslim.

Muslim figureheads have condemed him (extensively).

Also if you polled in France, Germany and even Britain and Italy you'd probebly find high anti-american feeling too (depending of course on how you phrased the question).

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo Pew Study of Global Attitudes, as of the fall of 2004, in Pakistan Jordan, Morocco, and Turkey, anti-Americanism was shown to be pervasive. Osama bin Laden was viewed favorably by large percentages in Pakistan (65 percent), Jordan (55 percent) and Morocco (45 percent).

Hmmm.... lovely source.....


a director of Pew...

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Susan W. Catherwood Background Director, Exelon Corp.; Chairman, University of Pennsylvania Health System

LINK

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One Company, One Vision. Exelon strives to build exceptional value - by becoming the best and most consistently profitable electricity and gas company in the United States. Look inside to see how Exelon lives up to our commitments as we continue to build a high performance culture that reflects the diversity of our communities.

http://www.exeloncorp.com/


Energy Industry? Won't be a friend of Georgy then?

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

Last edited by Dervish on Mar-14-2005 at 20:17

He may not be a religious scholar but he carries the same recognition and clout as one. A lowly man taking on and hurting a nation which he has made seem that is at fault for their wrongdoings is seen as a hero.

Here are some excepts for an article (albeit an anti-american press one from the asia times). I had to make sure to get a non North American article or dare i risk more brainwashed comments.

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The fact that Osama bin Laden was running a global terror network in some 60 countries was unknown by 99 percent of Americans; or that Pakistan's Islamic schools (madrassas) are producing an endless supply of recruits for terrorist training in Afghanistan; or that Pakistan's crassly ignorant religious leaders are promoting bin Laden's hatred of America; or that fanatics have won the hearts and minds of the Muslim masses while they chloroformed the silent majority into submission. And CBS's Dan Rather wondered out loud on Larry King Live, "How did we get sucker punched?" The dumbing down of the media was the slippery slope that led to the dumbing down of America. For most of the developing world, it was still a matter of how to put food on the family table, not twice or three times but once a day. Muslim clerics from Indonesia to Pakistan, the world's two most populous Islamic states, and from Egypt to Morocco, tell their impoverished flocks that America lives in the lap of luxury thanks to the sweat of their brow. And to add insult to injury, they say that America is supplying billions of dollars worth of military hardware to Israel to keep the Palestinians enslaved. All the ingredients for the Clash of Civilizations, posited by Prof Samuel Huntington in his famous book, have slowly hardened without the ever-alert mass media machine taking notice. September 11 snapped Rip Van Winkle policy wonks out of a long post-Cold War sleep. They suddenly advocated a "belt of democracy" to wean the masses away from a clergy that doubles in brass as witch doctors. Unfortunately, masses that can't read or write - Pakistan is 70 percent illiterate - have been led to believe that democracy is the smokescreen behind which the evil American empire advances its pawns. Obscurantist theocracy is the mullahs' vessel of choice to keep the masses at sea in the real world. Gen Hameed Gul, the retired Pakistani intelligence chief who plays Svengali as "strategic adviser" to the country's extremist religious formations, points to the feudal regimes of the Gulf to prove to his clerical followers that even America is not really serious about democracy as a global model. The retired general is also a friend and admirer of Osama bin Laden and his son-in-law Mullah Mohammad Omar, the Taliban's "Supreme Leader of the Faithful". The ruling royal families of the Gulf are the third most hated by the "fundos" (local jargon for fundamentalists) after the United States and Israel. For democracy to be meaningful to the masses, the divine right of rulers in the Gulf would have to morph into constitutional monarchies as unifying symbols over non-royal governments elected by popular mandate. The ruler of Qatar, Sheikh Hamad bin Khalifa al Thani, buys time by subsidizing the Qatari-based Al Jazeera TV station that acts as a mouthpiece for Osama bin Laden. Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates keep their flat-earth clerics at bay by ladling out largess to Pakistan's madrassas - religious schools that produced recruits for Osama bin Laden's terrorist training camps in Afghanistan.

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Originally posted by Dervish Energy Industry? Won't be a friend of Georgy then?

hey, your a propagandist again! good boy