so cd's cut off signals above 20khz and below (20hz ?)..
what does vinyl do with all of this data/sound??

The needle and associated electronics in the turntable don't reproduce it and even if they did, you probably wouldn't hear it!

ah, ic..
I asked Mark Scaif what it is about vinyl that he likes, and he said that the sound itself is "warmer"//
could anybody explain why this is, and does it even make a difference when heard through the speakers of an average club/rave sound system?

I'm really guessing here, but the "warmer" sound of vinyl might be due to the sound of the needle tracking the record ... the same way people say that tube amps sound softer and warmer - which is, again, due to brown (is it ?or is it white ? dunno) noise being introduced to the signal.

On an average club system, I don't think a lot of people would be able to tell the difference between vinyl - CD - MP3 ... 'coz the levels are just too high and the ear can't hear as accurately ... plus the room accoustics at a club are usually fairly bad with lots of reverb and echo so that would make it even more difficult to discriminate between the mediums.

Like I said, from my experience the only reason vinyl is prefered to CDs is easier handling and "hands-on" mixing where you directly manipulate the record as opposed to fiddling with buttons, jog-wheels and similar toys on CD players ...

peace

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djskywarp.com
:: Ways of the Wikkid :: Canada's premiere Artist, DJ, Promoter, and Club Portal ::

quote:

Originally posted by skywarp d) The human ear is not capable of registering sounds over 20 KHz, most people can't register frequencies above 18 KHz and quite a bit can not hear frequencies over 16 KHz !!! h) No matter what anybody here says, no medium will be able to replace vinyl as a DJ's choice for quite some time. The ease and accuracy of spinning records and the ability to directly manipulate your medium can not be replicated by a CD player / MP3. Also, MP3 mixing programs aren't reliable enough to be used profesionally - just imagine your machine crashing in the middle of the set ... hahaha. And also, the people who go to parties want to see a DJ actually do something, not just sit in front of the computer and click around with the mouse. peace

The human ear may not be able to register the sounds over 20khz or whatever, but the laws of distortion, waves and general shit thats just physics says that the ones we cant hear make a difference to the ones we can hear, other wise what would be the point in having 44100 Hz (<<<< not khz).

About mp3 never being used? I agree that it will not replace vinyl in the near future, but Yousef and some other dood used a puter with all the fancy hardware add ons for digital 1200 sl at creamfields last year

Peace

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MUGGETS

quote:

The human ear may not be able to register the sounds over 20khz or whatever, but the laws of distortion, waves and general shit thats just physics says that the ones we cant hear make a difference to the ones we can hear, other wise what would be the point in having 44100 Hz (<<<< not khz).

The 44100 Hz would be the sampling rate - ie. the level of the sound wave is measured 44100 times every second - and NOT the actual frequency. 16 bit specifies how many possible sound level "steps" there are - in case of 16bit you'd have 65536 possible increments (2^16).

Another thing, I'd like to see somebody who can tell the difference between a track lowpassed at 18KHz (all frequencies above 18KHz cut off) and the original track in a double-blind test. There is a really interesting discussion happening at www.r3mix.net ... worth checking out.

peace

___________________
djskywarp.com
:: Ways of the Wikkid :: Canada's premiere Artist, DJ, Promoter, and Club Portal ::

44.1 kHz is the Nyquist limit for human hearing and is the min freq to represent 20 kHz.

It's true that signals we can't hear affect the ones we can but this happens before the digitisation process so nothing is lost.

The 'warmer' sound of vinyl (and analogue tape) is because the clipping nature is non-linear. This makes peak signals rounded instead of square which emphasises the 3rd Harmonic of the signal whilst reducing the others and that's the warm sound.

Last edited by Joel Fielder on Mar-14-2001 at 11:11

skywarp, maybe we cant tecnically hear it.. but at high volumes you can feel it.. my buddy always says that.

in a universe of infinite forms of compressed energy, i personally think that science is limited in its ability to explain reality and our perception is not limited to the standard 5 senses.. maybe im drifting off topic a bit,

mwybe the "hands on feel" of vinyl is easier for you because your used to it.. once u or anybody else gets a feel for a nice round cd jog dial, its just as easy..
actually for me its easier..
im a sad case actually. i have the cmx5000 and two technics all going into a pioneer djm500.. out to a crown amp (cant remember the code name, but 500watts output.. then out to two phat 300watt yamahas. anyway when i say im sad im obviously not reffering to my gear!, heh. See, i got he stuff a couple months ago.. started with the CD's.. learned the ropes (still haven't practiced enough) bought about 10viyls to date.. still haven't learned to beatmatch vinyl.

now, i dunno if that little story of 'my life as a dj so far' says vinyl is tougher to master, or just that im hurting

Sorry to argue, you can't literally feel high frequency through volume. The Sound Pressure Level would deafen and kill you first.

I agree with you with that ESP stuff though - you can sense something with a higher sample rate. I think it's because the reconstruction filter doesn't have to work so hard so the 16 - 20 kHz region is reconstructed more accurately rather than due to actually hearing > 20 kHz.

so your saying that perhaps as the range extends (or expands), the area in the middle that we technically CAN hear improves in qualtiy. that makes sense.

This thread was fascinating to read.. thanks to all who contributed