quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z ok, you're going to have to elaborate on that one.

see: Georgey

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quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus see: Georgey

ok, i'm not sure weather its from being up all night or this dank bud, or both, but i still don't know what you're talking about.

in case you're referring to me, i'm not arab or european.

you know what, sleep sounds like a good idea rightnow. adios.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z ok, i'm not sure weather its from being up all night or this dank bud, or both, but i still don't know what you're talking about. in case you're referring to me, i'm not arab or european. you know what, sleep sounds like a good idea rightnow. adios.

Not sure but I think he meant throw in the Euros and Arabs ALONH WITH Jews and Irish Americans? Right? But I'm not sure what cause celebre the Europeans are supposed to be radical about?! There are lots of different countries for a start dont ya know Yoepus?!

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Originally posted by Dervish was it not Britian? Cos one of my family (not current you understand) was one of Cromwells lieutenants. (one a side note his brother was one of the high up ministers in Edinburgh castle when they took it, brother Vs. brother) I'll just quote it so it's right... I think they sold the land after a bit though. Plus that tea leaf bitch Cromwell nicked the mister brothers stuff.... Sorry for the monstor post but I think it has a fair bit of detail in it and is right (rather than my usual foggy half guessing).

Dunno I always thought it was just England at that point (that included Wales) but like I said, British politics aint really my thang (altho I have studied British and European History at a-level but that was long ago!)

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Originally posted by George Smiley Of course, that is the very simplified version! Nah only kiddin thats just the piss takin version. I'll have a look around for you but until then here's a little version from me (Zig will probably know more about the earlier stuff and exact dates as I assume that would be studied in depth at Irish schools?) Anyway, England conquers Ireland some time (probly round Braveheart's era!) All the landowners are English protestants. In an effort in the 1800s to give protestants more influence (Ireland = Catholic) England ships a load of protestants from Scotland and they settle in the northern area of Ireland (which is where the Northern Irish get their distinct accents from) Anyway, the Irish obviously dont like being ruled by the British so they revolt or sod off to America (Ireland is the only country in this period to see its population actually decrease)

meh, i think alot of irish left to american because of the famine and not british rule. My irish history of 1800 -1860 is failr shit, as we dont that early in school and i have mostly forgotten it. But i dont think we blame the british for the famine though. We werent happy with british rule but i will go into that in a second.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Ireland declares independence in 1916 (and despite being neutral in both wars somehow manage to leave their lights on so the German bombers can get their barings to bomb Britain!!)

woo there horsey.

In 1916 we had a rising in Dublin, now the majority of DUblin people were actually against this.

The reason the rising happened in 191 is because we were promised home rule in 1912 but because of WW1 it was put off until after the war. We said grand, we dont mind. Most people only though WW1 would only last about 6 months or so.

Nobody predicted the blood bath it would be. So as the years went buy a number of rebel groups got pissed off and decided to have a rising.

IRB set it up i think. They were suppoed to join forces with Irish volunteers but they pulled out because there were tricked into it. the names of the goruops might be wrong.

So the rising goes ahead on Easter Monday(or sunday,could never remeber) they lost. They held themselves up in the GPO(with other fighting arround the city, but this was the HQ)

Anyway as i said, most dublin people werent happy with this, it basically destroyed the city. As the rebels were let away people spat on them and throw begtables.

This is where it goes to shit for britian(mainly cos there pillocks )

They didnt realise(or didnt care) how the Dublin people felt, i.e they were against the rebellion. Anyway the british started executing alot of the members involved. This is when the Dublin people began to turn against the british and support the rebels more and more.

The icing on the cake was when they executed padrig pearse( i think it was him). Basically he had gang-green in the leg so they had to stick him in a chair to shoot him. People felt this was to cruel. And support grew for th rebels.

Anywho by 1920 everyone is for independence. And this is when the war of independce starts, we were granted a free state. 1921 is when the civil war began. it wasnt until 1949 we actually became a republic.

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Originally posted by George Smiley but Britain keeps the Northern protestant areas (and does so today) Approx 45% of people in Northern Ireland are catholic and wish to be part of Ireland, the remainder wish to remain British (the protestants)* So in the 1970s the situation gets a bit tits up and we send in the army to help! Basically the army takes the protestant side, does a bit of the old oppression and shoots many people Bloody Sunday being the most imfamous event.So the UK gets bombed loads by the IRA, the UVF etc go to war with the IRA, loads of people die so Labour came in wanting to resolve the conflict (as did Clinton and Albright who must take a hell of a lot of the credit) and today things are a lot calmer. The mainland hasn't been bombed since 1996 (altho following the Omagh tragedy and following 9/11 the IRA's tactics have become unpopular form of "resistance") also there is less of a need for catholics (nationalists) to protest as they are free and have exactly the same lives as protestants so reunification is now purely symbolic (ie its not gonna change their lives for the better and if you ask me (and probly Zig!) it would make it worse) (should point out the RUC (the police force) is currently being reformed due to discrimination against catholoics) Still a long way to go and the Loyalists seem to be more interested in fightin themselves!

The catholics i nthe north were treated like the blakcs were in south africa. They never got good jobs, the police pretty much ignored them and never bothered.

The IRA were not only fighting for independece but for a more equal life. NOw they are being treated equally there is far less desire for a independence, again it would do more damage then good ifeel.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Dunno I always thought it was just England at that point (that included Wales) but like I said, British politics aint really my thang (altho I have studied British and European History at a-level but that was long ago!)

I think by that time you'd taken James (your first our 6th) as king

quote:

James Charles Stuart became King James the VI of Scotland in 1567 when he was only 13 months old. Then some 33 years later, on March 24, 1603, he also became King James I of England. King James' English predecessor, Queen Elizabeth, had died childless with no named succesor. It is said that Queen Elizabeth assumed that King James would be her successor--he was a proven king and a descendant of English King Henry VII (King Henry VII's daughter Margaret married James IV of Scotland). When King James Charles Stuart ascended to the English throne he became King James VI of Scotland and King James I of England--hence, King James VI & I. King James was now the first King of what he liked to call Great Britain. His ascension to the English throne forever joined the crowns of England and Scotland. The line of Scottish kings ended with King James VI.

>>>LINKY<<<

Bet you americans never realised it was a Scottish king who became king of England rather than the other way round?


Bitches can still nail us at the footie tho.


then it all went a bit bit pete tong with his son Charles

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A problem in Scotland brought an abrupt end to Charles' 11 years of personal rule and unleashed the forces of civil war upon England. Charles attempted to force a new prayer book on the Scots, which resulted in rebellion. Charles' forces were ill prepared due to lack of proper funds, causing the king to call, first, the Short Parliament, and finally the Long Parliament. King and Parliament again reached no agreement; Charles foolishly tried to arrest five members of Parliament on the advice of Henrietta Maria, which brought matters to a head. The struggle for supremacy led to civil war. Charles raised his standard against Parliamentary forces at Nottingham in 1642. Religious and economic issues added to the differences between the supporters of the monarchy (Cavaliers) and the supporters of Parliament (Roundheads). The lines of division were roughly as follows: Cavalier backing came from peasants and nobility of Episcopalian roots while Roundhead backing came from the emerging middle class and tradesmen of the Puritanical movement. Geographically, the northern and western provinces aided the Cavaliers, with the more financially prosperous and populous southern and eastern counties lending aid to the Roundheads. The bottom line is that the Roundheads, with deeper pockets and more population from which to draw, were destined to win the battle. Oliver Cromwell and his New Model Army at Naseby soundly routed the Cavaliers in 1645. Scarcely a year later Charles surrendered to Scottish forces, which turned the king over to Parliament. In 1648, Charles was put on trial for treason; the tribunal, by a vote of 68 to 67, found the king guilty and ordered his execution in 1649..

>>>LINKY<<<

edit: 68 to 67... thats gotta be anoying... enough to lose your head over even

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Last edited by Dervish on Apr-10-2005 at 17:32

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Originally posted by Michael19 The catholics i nthe north were treated like the blakcs were in south africa. They never got good jobs, the police pretty much ignored them and never bothered. The IRA were not only fighting for independece but for a more equal life. NOw they are being treated equally there is far less desire for a independence, again it would do more damage then good ifeel.

Yea I agree completely. They were oppressed and at that time I wouldn't be able to argue with the aims of the IRA (means maybe but aims no) But it is different today. Altho there may be discrimination (in the police for example) the Catholics are complete equals under the law, no different from me or anyone else. This has seen a decrease in activities against the main land (and maybe there's a lesson for Israel there!)

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish I think by that time you'd taken James (your first our 6th) as king >>>LINKY<<< Bet you americans never realised it was a Scottish king who became king of England rather than the other way round? Bitches can still nail us at the footie tho. then it all went a bit bit pete tong with his son Charles >>>LINKY<<< edit: 68 to 67... thats gotta be anoying... enough to lose your head over even

To be fair, who cant nail you at footy?!

Even google can't answer that!

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quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z totally off topic but for some reason i'm more curious now that before about the whole England/Ireland issue, could you (GeorgeSmiley) and Zig direct me to a link or something? And, if there's some book that you could recommend, I wouldn't mind looking into that eigther.

Irish history

good basic Irish history....not to long either

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Oh yea...and here is what every single person in Ireland looks like...

A couple of photos of our English neighbours,all wearing the latest national costume.....bet ya george smiley has a wardrobe full of this gear.......

Bet ya Dervish has a load as well.........