quote:

Originally posted by MarkT 23k (assuming you can get that) = more 28k on the road after freight, taxes, prep, etc.

Yeah, $25k is my max. Base would have to be around $19K to $20K, then add options and taxes.

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Originally posted by amb_ I've looked at a few of the Mazda and Honda mondels and the VW Golf seems to make the most sense.

Sorry to burst you're bubble, but Volkswagens are some of the worst reliable cars out there!! Trust me, and they're are very costly to maintain as well. German parts are ridicoulously expensive, and the fact that it'll requir a lot of maintenance and repair doesnt help. If you're pickin between a golf and a vibe, go with the vibe, at least the parts are cheap.

Do yourself a favour and go Japanese. But hey, I love Golfs, if you can afford to maintain it, by all means get it. I have an Audi (same company as VW in case u didnt know), and although its a very nice car, I wouldnt buy one again purely based on the reliability factor.

I dont think i'll ever buy a non-Japanese car again, unless of course, i can really afford(to maintain) a german one.

Cars are money pits, I learned this the hard way, and im still paying for it.

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Originally posted by MarkT ^^^ who wants to drive @ 6200-8000rpms to hit optimal power? Not me. Give me torque down low over hp up high ANY DAY. "HP wins races" might be true...but 99.9% of us drive on REAL STREETS, not race tracks

Why do people buy S2000s or RX8s or Celica GTSs or Honda Civics?

Also, "horsepower sells cars - torque wins races." - Carroll Shelby

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Originally posted by VERTiG0 As has been said, you simply cannot do any wrong by purchaing a Honda of any sort. Forget everything everybody else in this thread said about the Vibe Sorry guys, you're just wildly misinformed The Vibe and Matrix are the exact same car. They are both built at the same plant, NUMMI, in California. In fact, the Vibe is sold in Japan as the Toyota Voltz. The thing with the Vibe is that having the domestic badge attached to it, you'll probably be able to get it cheaper than a comparable Matrix, simply because it doesn't say Toyota on it. Looks between the two are subjective, the slight facelift on the Vibe makes it look a helluva lot better than it used to, but I still prefer the look of a Matrix XRS. For the love of god don't buy a Volkswagen. You will regret it. I will go into this further if you'd like. I'll just say now that Consumer Reports' list of Most Reliable Vehicles 2004, the 3 most UNRELIABLE vehicles were the '04 Golf, '04 Jetta, and '04 Beetle.

Cale - you beat me to it on the comments about the Vibe/Matrix. I think they are both nice cars, but I don't like the interiors.

As for VW's - I agree, they are by no means the most reliable cars on the road. I own an '01 Jetta and have had a few minor problems with it. Parts are also expensive. But these days they come with a 4-year warranty. And there is nothing wrong with getting a diesel (you'll save loads on fuel esp. if you're driving out of town).

I would highly recommend the Mazda3. But you should also look at the Civic.

The Merc B-Class is mint.

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quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 Why do people buy S2000s or RX8s or Celica GTSs or Honda Civics? Also, "horsepower sells cars - torque wins races." - Carroll Shelby

because people are dumb...they look at peak hp #s and cream themselves, that's why. Anyone with half a brain should be considering torque as well...and WHERE those peak #s hit...ideally, if people are THAT concerned with performance, they'll be looking at a dyno curve, gear ratios, and curb weight too...I know YOU know that though

I'd *never* buy any of those cars you listed (although my friend's S2000 can be fun to drive)...at each price point, I could name 3 other cars I'd rather have.

race car philosophies don't necessarily apply to daily drivers. People will take high-end power because in a race, you'll stay up in the powerband the whole time. People (normal people) don't drive like that on the street.

People buy Honda Civics because they're cheap, reliable, and have a reputation for quality (that's not entirely undeserved...but what a boring car).

I guess the best advice...research.

cars, for many people, come down to personal preference (it explains why so many *fugly* Azteks are on the road, lol).

test drive (for more than 5 minutes) any car you plan to buy...explore online resources too...NOT CONSUMER REPORTS which is the most useless publication on the planet...check out CAR FORUMS RUN BY OWNERS. You'll see what they like, don't like, what quality issues a car has, and a shitload of other info.

I stand by a Mazda3 in the "new car < 25k, on the road" category

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Originally posted by MarkT I guess the best advice...research. cars, for many people, come down to personal preference (it explains why so many *fugly* Azteks are on the road, lol).

You are so lucky you didn't say anything about "fugly* Honda Elements.

Chris if you are still planning on staying up in no trance land you might want to consider a used 4X4 SUV (CRV, Rav4) with all the snow you will have. If you have your sites set on a car for the $$$ you want to spend I agree with Mark - Mazada 3. Unless you have to lease the car you might want to look at a used model to save the depreciation. If you move back to Toronto or close to I should be able to hook you up with parts etc. at a good price.

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Originally posted by MarkT because people are dumb...they look at peak hp #s and cream themselves, that's why. Anyone with half a brain should be considering torque as well...and WHERE those peak #s hit...ideally, if people are THAT concerned with performance, they'll be looking at a dyno curve, gear ratios, and curb weight too...I know YOU know that though

I'd disagree on me being dumb. I much prefer the high reving engine over the low reving high torque. I've had both, and I like what I have.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT Anyone with half a brain should be considering torque as well...and WHERE those peak #s hit...ideally, if people are THAT concerned with performance, they'll be looking at a dyno curve, gear ratios, and curb weight too...I know YOU know that though

Then there should be many more people driving Benzes with big engines. Most of them have torque curves that are more like flat lines from about 1800rpm to 6000rpm.

congrats, welcome to the car club, its a nice car, i considered buying it, but after i saw the mazda 6 zoom zoom


+ youll find it soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much eaiser to commute instead of bus and sub, now the only thing you have to worry about is rising gas expenses and regular maintanince.

Yeah...initially I wanted to comment on VW or Mazda but I thought you were fixed on that Vibe shape. I got an '04 VW Jetta for my Mom and it's a ruff'n'tuff TDI so I don't anticipate many problems with that; however 2 of my buddies have new Golfs (03/04) and one of them has already had to replace a muffler (drives a LOT but not very aggressive) and of course, service like just a stupid oil change or whatever costs a frickin arm and a leg.

Every time Globe Megawheels comes out with reliability stats, VW is right there on the bottom, only succeeded by Ladas. LOL!

Bang for buck = Mazda3. Reliability is not = to Honda/Toyota (which will last you 20 years) but for the engine, styling, and feel-good factor, I agree that's a good choice.

Are Minis out of the question? I drive a Prelude and I'd give it up anytime for a Mini Cooper S...ever since Italian Job I had to get one...Jenny and I will get "His and Hers" one day!!! LOL!!!! And people will say "Fay is Gay" but I digress...