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Originally posted by fr0st Im not even gonna bother... What do i know from working everyday with music and being a artist myself.... There is no point in arguing. But when the only decent artist we have left quit making unique music because there is no money in it the only ones you can blame are your selves... Again i said its not the pop stars who suffer its the independant artist who live from paycheck to paycheck. Gig to gig.. When was the last time you turned on a radio station that played new and innovative music?

for fucksakes !this is the 21st century .... i think artists need to find other ways or try workin along with wat is goin on in the future bcuz downloading is unstopable, i say fuck the riaa, music is music.....

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"real social change for the oppressed people's can only be brought through a revolution by the people."

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Originally posted by fr0st What do i know from working everyday with music and being a artist myself.... There is no point in arguing. But when the only decent artist we have left quit making unique music because there is no money in it the only ones you can blame are your selves... Again i said its not the pop stars who suffer its the independant artist who live from paycheck to paycheck. Gig to gig.. When was the last time you turned on a radio station that played new and innovative music? And im not your mate.

First off not to bust your bubble, if your a true artist you shouldnt care on what money your making off your music (although its nice to make money off your music dnt get me wrong). Right now i make ZERO dollars and I work really hard on my music, cause i enjoy making music. If an artist quits creating art because there not making enough money , then the only person to blame is the artist themselves.


No matter who the RIAA sues , piracy and "illegal" downloading will go on until we are dead. Unless the internet dies before us.

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Originally posted by AstralNrg First off not to bust your bubble, if your a true artist you shouldnt care on what money your making off your music (although its nice to make money off your music dnt get me wrong). Right now i make ZERO dollars and I work really hard on my music, cause i enjoy making music. If an artist quits creating art because there not making enough money , then the only person to blame is the artist themselves. No matter who the RIAA sues , piracy and "illegal" downloading will go on until we are dead. Unless the internet dies before us.

Of course i am, but will i dedicate my life to it? No.... Imagine being able to do what you love and make money off it... As if a full time job... Again there is no sense in arguing because there is no way to stop it. But when the radios are clogged with p diddy's 50 cents, ashley simson's and nickleback type bands we have no one to blame but ourselves ..

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"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes"

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Originally posted by fr0st Im not even gonna bother... What do i know from working everyday with music and being a artist myself.... There is no point in arguing. But when the only decent artist we have left quit making unique music because there is no money in it the only ones you can blame are your selves... Again i said its not the pop stars who suffer its the independant artist who live from paycheck to paycheck. Gig to gig.. When was the last time you turned on a radio station that played new and innovative music?

i have to jump in here for a quick clarification -
mp3 sharing on p2p networks does not stop radio stations from playing good indie music. it's the big record labels who have control of these radio stations (and who are also behind the whole riaa suing stuff to begin with). if you are not on a big record label, forget about being on a mainstream radio station (even when you know the DJ! my family tried to get my dad's stuff on a local station a few years ago, and it was a no go cuz all our music is indie/self-produced)... college and internet radio seem to be the best solution for the indie artists, and mp3s certainly do not stand in the way of that.

also -
mp3 sharing has helped me with my career so far. there are people that have discovered my music as a result of me offering free downloads of my music, and then come to shows. there are booking agents that have heard my stuff through mp3 and subsequently booked me for shows. there are internet radio stations that have played my music because of mp3s. there are CDs I've sold because of mp3s.
so actually for the indie artist it can be a very good deal.

and actually, the RIAA's nonsense has done the music industry a favor because it made people aware that they were cheating the musicians of $$... in the last few years i've heard soooo many more people talk about supporting the artists... that never seemed to be a concern before, i guess because everyone figured they had plenty of money already? the mp3 "debate" (or whatever you want to call it) has reminded people that music is something to be respected, something worth spending money on. I still disagree with the rampant suing, though... they're taking it too far. itunes has the right idea, by making it a cool thing to buy mp3s, rather than scaring everyone into it. but hey, to sue is the American way, isn't it?

anyway, i just had to peep my head back in here...this is a topic near and dear to my musical heart. no argument intended, just friendly discourse.

Rachel

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www.rachelrossos.com
My debut CD: www.cdbaby.com/rachelrossos <--- Now available on iTunes!
www.myspace.com/rachelrossos

mp3 sharing is a marketing tool.

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When you start to criticize the times you live in, your time is over. ~Karl Lagerfeld

I never said anything about dedicating your life, im just a firm believer if you make music to make money it is a wrong ideal to have.

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Originally posted by fr0st Im not even gonna bother... What do i know from working everyday with music and being a artist myself....

The only thing that may mean is that you have a scewed view. You look at a single example -yourself- and seem to want to generalize from that. I am not sure that these articles are the ones that clearly describe the situation, but the problem is that labels are now very risk averse. They invest large sums of money into artist promotion and require a good return on that investment. It is cheaper to push/ popularize a few artists (however crappy they may see B. Spears etc.) rather than invest into many artists.

This is not an mp3 induced problem, but rather a label/ free-market economy problem.

As to the issue of mp3's killing music, Andrew Orlovksi is suggesting an alternate reward program, ie. a tax that will be used to compensate the content providers/ creators, similar to public television.

Michael Geist, on the other hand, is explaining clearly how crooked and inflated the numbers released by the CRIA (Canadian equivalent to the RIAA) are:
They claim to have 'lost' ~C$ 2 billion since 1999, while the actual decline in sales for that period was C$431.7.

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There is no point in arguing.

Tyrue, since the only way to achieve anything is change.

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Again i said its not the pop stars who suffer its the independant artist who live from paycheck to paycheck.

But that is not the fault of mp3's...

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

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Originally posted by drizzt81 But that is not the fault of mp3's...

Not entirely but partially yes...

Mp3's mean less sales for majors labels(even though its very slight they still want maximum profit) Labels will sign artist that will make the most money and follow a cookie cutter hit Formula. Why sign a artist that may have a hit or two when you can sign a artist and gurantee a hit? Its all of pop culture in general that is destroying music even our own beloved dance music suffers. I could go on to explain how dance music is compressed/limited to the point it tires the ear when you listen to it even on low volumes... Because louder is better right? Why have music with dynamics when you can have it loud and in your face. So back on to the artist of course there will always be abundance of artist making music, but making music isnt just about talent or ability its about time and how much of it you invest in it.. You have a great artist making tracks in his spare time, give that same artist more time and hell have more and better tracks.


To say that mp3's have to play in the decline of good music is completely iggnorant. But hey if you need to justify it thats fine. In the end everyone suffers. More crap cookie cutter music is shoved down our throats, meanwhile the stream of new and innovative music declines..

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"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes"

^^^ I can't follow your argument. Why does mp3s/filesharing cause more pop music/less non-pop music to be produced/played on the radio? Don't you think that pop music is being copied in vast amounts? Judging from my own experience, I would say that EDM fans buy a larger portion of music than the fans of pop music - and spend more money on going to see the artists when they perform.

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Originally posted by drizzt81 ps.: yes i know i am retarded for arguing on the internet...

What makes it more retarded to argue on the net than in person?

- the Arguer.

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Originally posted by trancaholic ^^^ I can't follow your argument. Why does mp3s/filesharing cause more pop music/less non-pop music to be produced/played on the radio? Don't you think that pop music is being copied in vast amounts? Judging from my own experience, I would say that EDM fans buy a larger portion of music than the fans of pop music - and spend more money on going to see the artists when they perform.

Pop music sells. The radio is there to promote pop music. Why promote something that is not going to sell. And yeah sure people go out see their fav dj's etc but what is 15 dollars a person for about 1000people compared to 50-100per person for a major pop event with 10s of thousands of people...

12" sales = almost no profit your lucky to break even with record sales. Cd album sales are what make money. Anyone notice that more and more dance music artist are trying to put out a "artist album".

As for listeners of dance music buying a lot of their music.... All i can do is laugh at that... Each and everyone on this forum is guilty of it. We even had a hub to share music on at one point i remember seeing a number of people with over 100gb of songs and sets(this was over a year ago mind you) I hate to see what its at now. I myself was guilty aswell as buying loads of vinyl i also downloaded a crapload of tracks along with mix cd's. Just because you have baught 20 vinyl's doesnt give you the right to download 100 tracks. Which im sure a lot of people do. Thinking "well i spent 100$ on vinyl this week, ive supported the artist, i should download how ever much i want", thats the mentaliity of the consumer...

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"The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes"

edit
my post was pointless someone already made my point

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Last edited by DjGeMiNi529 on Apr-27-2005 at 18:25