does it really matter the way al-quaida is organised. the fact is that it exists and is carrying out terrorist attacks. whether or not its another group affiliated to them with another name doesnt make any difference. if anything the fact that the gov group all islamic terrists as 'linked to al-Q' is underplaying the threat. if they went about differentiating the different groups it could be seen to be swarm of islamic terrorism, overbearing on the western world.

as for defence contracts...dont they keep the economy stable? they are one of the few manufacturing industries left in a lot of countries

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Originally posted by svens_bath does it really matter the way al-quaida is organised.

Of course it matters! How can you defeat them if you dont even know how they are organised!?

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the fact is that it exists and is carrying out terrorist attacks. whether or not its another group affiliated to them with another name doesnt make any difference.

So it doesn't matter which terrorist group does it? Thats a bit of an odd thing to say isn't it? Thats like saying there is no difference between attacks carried out by the PFLP and the IRA, they all follow the same ideology afterall, dont they?

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if anything the fact that the gov group all islamic terrists as 'linked to al-Q' is underplaying the threat. if they went about differentiating the different groups it could be seen to be swarm of islamic terrorism, overbearing on the western world.

No because if they differentiated then people might get the idea (Lord forbid!) that these groups all have their own motives and causes that have nothing to do with the West. And where is this proof that there is a "swarm of islamic terrorism, overbearing on the western world"??

I get the impression you are buying into the line that the Islamists are trying to take over the world?

I'll add to that that al-Qaida (ie bin Laden and his close associates, not the freelancers) are using this war on terror as much as Bush is. They seem to form a sybiotic relationship where the more each of them act the more benefits the other stands to gain. Bush wants to exert control over the world (esp Middle East) and bin Laden wants shit loads of supporters for his cause (and no, his cause is not taking over the world or even destroying the "Great Satan" America)

all the islamic terrorists want the same thing. what started as a backlash against the isreal situation has developed into a hatred of American-democracy and the West

im not saying there is a sawarm of islamic terorirsm, but i am saying that thats how it could be perceived if you start differentiating between all the gruops. the terrorist threat could then be exagerated.

i dont think islamists are trying to take over the world...they want to bring down the West that they see is the Devil, in some misguided holywar. thats the reality. i think people have, via distrust of tony blair, begun to disregard the islaimic terrorist threat as a Michal Moore conspiracy. theyre stil out there, and theyre coming to get your flower pots!!!

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Originally posted by svens_bath all the islamic terrorists want the same thing. what started as a backlash against the isreal situation has developed into a hatred of American-democracy and the West im not saying there is a sawarm of islamic terorirsm, but i am saying that thats how it could be perceived if you start differentiating between all the gruops. the terrorist threat could then be exagerated. i dont think islamists are trying to take over the world...they want to bring down the West that they see is the Devil, in some misguided holywar. thats the reality. i think people have, via distrust of tony blair, begun to disregard the islaimic terrorist threat as a Michal Moore conspiracy. theyre stil out there, and theyre coming to get your flower pots!!!

Thats the "reality"? And tell me how they are gonna "bring down the West"?!

And can you yourself differentiate, for example, between al-Qaida and Hizballah? Two Islamist movements...

Also, do you differentiate between the IRA and the PFLP (as I said above)? They both follow the same ideology so by your logic they must be the same. Do you think they are?

i doubt they will take down the West, but that is their aim. like i said groups like hizbollah started with an isreal agenda, but i dont think its too far-fetched to suggest that they have engaged the whole taking down the West cause now.

NI i dont know too much about. if they have the same ideology are they not generally grouped together as unionists or republicans anyway?

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Originally posted by svens_bath i doubt they will take down the West, but that is their aim. like i said groups like hizbollah started with an isreal agenda, but i dont think its too far-fetched to suggest that they have engaged the whole taking down the West cause now. NI i dont know too much about. if they have the same ideology are they not generally grouped together as unionists or republicans anyway?

The PLFP are Palestinians, but are linked ideologically to the IRA, but you wouldn't group them together would you? And link Hizballah with al-Qaida is even more rediculous but you dont stop there you claim Hizballah want to bring down the West too!! Sorry, you actually claim Hizballah ARE engaging in "bringing the West down"!!!

Er...

Would it be out of the question to ask where you got this little nugget of information from? Link a link or summat? (And when you say "hizbollah started with an isreal agenda" what do you mean by that?)

hizbollah are anti-us right? well isnt that pretty much anti-Western? i dont subscribe to the Hizbollah Herald or nowt, but i think if they had the chance they would want to bring down the West which is the root of their problems. im not saying they are linked to al-Q, just they share a similar general aim as far as im concerned. anti-isreal meaning they formed in response to the isreal invasion of lebanon.

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Originally posted by svens_bath hizbollah are anti-us right? well isnt that pretty much anti-Western? i dont subscribe to the Hizbollah Herald or nowt, but i think if they had the chance they would want to bring down the West which is the root of their problems. im not saying they are linked to al-Q, just they share a similar general aim as far as im concerned. anti-isreal meaning they formed in response to the isreal invasion of lebanon.

There are a lot of people that are anti-American! Not quite all of them are Islamists however And anti-America means anti-American government. Hizballah (in fact I even recall bin Laden saying something similar) has no problems with American citizens and it may come as a surprise to you but I can assure you neither group is trying to "destroy" America (or anywhere else in the world for that matter)

Hizballah are a localised group (albeit the most powerful militant group in the world most probably) that are concerned with Lebanon and getting Israel out (and believe they succeded). After that they are like Hamas in that they are a political party with a complex social network. Comparing Hizballah to al-Qaida is not in the slightest bit useful.

It is exacltly the same as comparing the IRA to the PFLP - the IRA want Irish reunification, and the PFLP want Palestinian independance (yet by your logic they are one and the same)

I assure you bin Laden has no desire to destroy our way of life (if you must know, his aim is first, to see American forces leave Saudi Arabia, secondly to overthrow the Saudi ruling family and thirdly, to establish the Calaphate across the Middle East. Thats it)

I'm not taking the piss or anything, but can I ask you where you are getting your opinions from?

what was 9/11 then..looked to me like an attack on America and its citizens..an attack on a western capitalist symbol..which bin laden took the blame for..so i think his aims have extended beyond the middle east. if the extremist muslims had theyre way they would want to take down the West.

hizbollah are anti-us..so are al-Q, i think theres a valid comparison there.

as for the plfp and the ira they are only thinly similar in ideology of independece..that way you could argue that the snp are like kashmiri separitists. al-Q and Hisbollah are both islamist groups who share a similar islamic outlook on the world..and are therefore more likely to be syspmathetic to each other's cause. muslims identify with the plights of other muslims all over the world.

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Originally posted by svens_bath what was 9/11 then..looked to me like an attack on America and its citizens..an attack on a western capitalist symbol..which bin laden took the blame for..so i think his aims have extended beyond the middle east. if the extremist muslims had theyre way they would want to take down the West. hizbollah are anti-us..so are al-Q, i think theres a valid comparison there. as for the plfp and the ira they are only thinly similar in ideology of independece..that way you could argue that the snp are like kashmiri separitists. al-Q and Hisbollah are both islamist groups who share a similar islamic outlook on the world..and are therefore more likely to be syspmathetic to each other's cause. muslims identify with the plights of other muslims all over the world.

The IRA and PFLP are ideological brothers! You say that both al-Qaida and Hizballah are the same cos they are both Islamist, yet go on to say the IRA and PFLP aren't the same! The PFLP and IRA are more alike than Hizballah and al-Qaida ever will be! (PFLP and the IRA (plus every other Palestinian group before the late 80s, plus most of the other terrorist groups around in the 70s) are both Marxist revolutionary militants so they are not just linked cos they have their own separate independence causes, they are linked through their shared ideology of Marxism)

As for al-Qaida attacking America as 'proof' of their desire to 'destroy' America, perhaps you should look at the three aims I listed above and see how by provoking America might benefit them? (Think recruitment)

Again, I'm gonna have to ask you where your information is coming from?