quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I'll say it again... You have to put it in context. This story is very convienient for those wanting to portray Muslims as evil terrorists, and if we heard that someone flushed a Bible down the toilet I'm sure people wouldn't riot. But that is comparing apples with oranges. If we were under occupation from an enemy that is seen as bent on destroying and conquering Christianity, and then they flushed a Bible down the tiolet there would almost certainly be riots

yeah good points

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil The religion itself isn't fanatic, it is the people that can be fanatic.

That's not what you said earlier.

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Originally posted by BadBadNeil This just shows how fanatic this religion truly is.

And as GeorgeSmiley said, you can't generalize the action of a few to everyone else. There's a difference between a religion and it's teaching and the people who claim to follow it. I don't really care about you talking smack about fanatics. I do that too. But when you make generalizations like this,

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil Hell when I was in a best western with my girlfriend our fridge had a missing leg and we used the bible to prop it up. Ooooo maybe the Catholic world will burn a few UN buildings, kill some people, protest, flip over some cars, and chant death threats at me. This just shows how fanatic this religion truly is. It is just a book with some print on it, my god, what an overblown reaction to nothing. Perhaps the people protesting and killing each other should be the ones to apologize for being idiots.

Thats really uncalled for. There's fucking fanatics and retards in every group so why are you bashing the religion.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by svens_bath maybe, but in my opinion, getting rid of saddam was worth this war. legal or illegal, and you can argue a decent case for either anyway, the fact is they are there now.

Why does everyone love forgetting the fact that Sadaam came to power WITH US SUPPORT and the chemical weapons he used to gas the kurds WERE SOLD TO HIM BY THE US. The US had no fucking business interferring with Iraq in the first place.

Man, you gotta love the goverment. First they create monsters and terrorists (eg. monster = Sadaam, terrorista = al-Qaeda)(in case you weren't aware of it, the CIA funded and trained al-Qaeda), and then they go and bomb the shit out of the countries they're in, and those countries always have lots of oil or need to be forcibly occupied for building a pipeline.

Oh and that comment you passed about how the Iraqi PM wanting troops in Iraq. Well, it doesn't fucking matter what he wants cuz the US is only interested in setting up a puppet goverment in Iraq and not one that will keep the interest of the Iraqi at heart.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

@ GeorgeSmiley, I love your sig.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Why does everyone love forgetting the fact that Sadaam came to power WITH US SUPPORT and the chemical weapons he used to gas the kurds WERE SOLD TO HIM BY THE US. The US had no fucking business interferring with Iraq in the first place. Man, you gotta love the goverment. First they create monsters and terrorists (eg. monster = Sadaam, terrorista = al-Qaeda)(in case you weren't aware of it, the CIA funded and trained al-Qaeda), and then they go and bomb the shit out of the countries they're in, and those countries always have lots of oil or need to be forcibly occupied for building a pipeline. Oh and that comment you passed about how the Iraqi PM wanting troops in Iraq. Well, it doesn't fucking matter what he wants cuz the US is only interested in setting up a puppet goverment in Iraq and not one that will keep the interest of the Iraqi at heart.

well i should think that as the prime minister of iraq, democratically elected mind, he speaks for the people of iraq?

regardless of where he got his weapons from, the fact that he was killing his own people with them, suggests he would be prepared to use them against other states. go round iraq and ask the people if theyd rather have saddam back...see what they say.

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil Hell when I was in a best western with my girlfriend our fridge had a missing leg and we used the bible to prop it up. Ooooo maybe the Catholic world will burn a few UN buildings, kill some people, protest, flip over some cars, and chant death threats at me.

I think that there are some important differences between your Bible experience and the troubles with Korans in toilets: First, you didn't use the bible as you did in a conscious effort to provoke Christians. Second, the reason why cheapening the Koran is much worse, is because it displays the hypocrisy that has been sold to muslims by the US government in the last 3-4 years. When Bush puts on his preacher face and says that he realizes that "Islam is a peaceful religion" and that he dislikes that terrorists perverts it, but at the same time oversees practices where the religion, rather than the terrorists, is severely humiliated, then that adds up to an even greater insult. Not only are your religion degraded, you have to suffer the tort of being lied to as well.

EDIT: And the reason why Catholics wouldn't go nuts? Because they're better educated and generally better off than the people in Afghanistan. Hence, they have the ability and emotional surplus to see a defacement as what it is, and nothing more.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z There's a difference between a religion and it's teaching

Which?

quote:

Originally posted by BadBadNeil Hell when I was in a best western with my girlfriend our fridge had a missing leg and we used the bible to prop it up. Ooooo maybe the Catholic world will burn a few UN buildings, kill some people, protest, flip over some cars, and chant death threats at me. This just shows how fanatic this religion truly is. It is just a book with some print on it, my god, what an overblown reaction to nothing. Perhaps the people protesting and killing each other should be the ones to apologize for being idiots.

this fanticism is no worse than the US's fanatical war against communisim in latin america, or other places. how many people died there?

quote:

Originally posted by svens_bath maybe, but in my opinion, getting rid of saddam was worth this war. legal or illegal, and you can argue a decent case for either anyway, the fact is they are there now.

How do you argue a case for an illegal war......do what the British and Americans did and lie?

If every country in the world carried out illegal wars on countrys, whose assets they coveted that would be ok as well, would it?

And dont give the bullshit that he was dictator and needed to be removed, why dont they remove other dictators, he was removed for the countrys oil assets, monetary gain, no other reason.

___________________
*** Sig edited -> see rule #5
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y142/dublin6/100-percent-liberal.gif

well why do you say the war was illegal?

ive read some of the arguments about whether it was legal or illegal, and i dont really want to go into them here otherwise the thread will get totally sidetracked, with people coming back and forth and whatever, but i assure you you can quite convincingly argue a case for the war being legal.

whther or not the UN inspection teams found WMD, and they did find some evidence of chemical capabilities if im not mistaken, i still beleive they are there. just fuckin well hidden. for that reason, id say the threat was such that it justified removing him..for the sake of his own people, and for the sake of the security of the region.

as for the war being all about oil..well thats your opinion, and nobody knows for sure whether that was the govs true agenda, but i personally doubt it. theres a thread on this forum that deals in great detail about this, and although ive not read it properly, the argument agaist the oil idea seems pretty reasonable to me.

quote:

Originally posted by svens_bath well why do you say the war was illegal? ive read some of the arguments about whether it was legal or illegal, and i dont really want to go into them here otherwise the thread will get totally sidetracked, with people coming back and forth and whatever, but i assure you you can quite convincingly argue a case for the war being legal. whther or not the UN inspection teams found WMD, and they did find some evidence of chemical capabilities if im not mistaken, i still beleive they are there. just fuckin well hidden. for that reason, id say the threat was such that it justified removing him..for the sake of his own people, and for the sake of the security of the region. as for the war being all about oil..well thats your opinion, and nobody knows for sure whether that was the govs true agenda, but i personally doubt it. theres a thread on this forum that deals in great detail about this, and although ive not read it properly, the argument agaist the oil idea seems pretty reasonable to me.

Sorry if this sidetracks the thread, but the war was totally illegal. If the best that can be said to claim there was a threat was "there may have been the capability to produce chemical weapons" that's hardly a threat. The evidence was so weak, we had to have DRAWINGS of what mobile laboratories might look like at the U.N. presentation, since we didn't actually have clear evidence they existed and we still don't. If the war wasn't illegal, that would essentially justify any pre-emptive attack by Iran or North Korea on our country, since we've used some harsh words against them and actually have WMDs and haven't been under sanctions for more than a decade, like Iraq had been. We had inspectors on the ground, sanctions in place, troops throughout the region and no evidence of WMDs or any links to Al Qaeda/ September 11th. That's a convinciny argument that we could face horrible attacks within less than an hour's notice? It's funny that Newsweek gets blasted for their source while we went to war based on the very wrong evidence provided by someone named "Curveball." You might want to check out the Downing Street Memo HERE

And as for where did Saddam's WMDs go after 1991 that hadn't been destroyed? Just about anything he had would've had a shelf life that would have expired long before 2003, meaning he would have had to produce more of it in order to actually have any stockpiles of it at the time of when we were under a supposed threat. We were justified because the weapons have to be somewhere hidden despite that we can't find ANY proof that they exist? I'm not sure any war in history could be called illegal if this constitutes the threshold of legality.

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