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Originally posted by Rob H there are people out there who only like tiesto because hes number 1 in the world, and dont know why hes there.

That was well said, my thoughts exactly

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Originally posted by Vigilant3 I think you're completely missing the point. When I throw on a Tiesto track I can feel the skill involved in producing the quality of trance that he does and I don't "HATE" anyone in the world that has the courage to attempt to produce trance. It is the very IDEA of a DJ going MAINSTREAM that I "HATE". Therefore seeing 1,000 people attend a Tiesto event who don't even really know who he is and will never dig up any of his classic tracks and mixes, makes me sick. Compare it to spending years of your life studying a topic and then having some Shmuck come out of the woodwork one day, read one article on the topic, and now claim to be an expert in the field just like you. If that turns you on, so be it bud. Personally, I enjoy listening to obscure trance tracks and sharing knowledge on them because I know the people i'm listening to the music with have an idea of what Trance is and desire it so much that they dig deeper than "Traffic". Live sets aside, I think a man or woman who can appreciate some good Ozgur Can, WhiteRoom, or GrayArea, has a higher spot in my book than an individual who loops Tiesto's "Just Be" and Ferry's "Rock Your Body Rock" perpetually on a mix disc in their Civic. Thanks.

Those are good points, but somewhat contadictory. You want to share you music, but you don't want it be mainstream? Where then, do you draw the line? Do you have to give people a pop-quiz on trance before you play music for them?

Although I have listened to trance since the early-mid nineties back in the hayday of raves, I myself didn't know much about Tiesto until I first heard his remix of silence when DeKoze playedin on destiny's first boat cruise back in 2000. Since I already liked the original version of that song, it hit home for my friends and me. A few months later, me and the same friends are at the Docks and Tiesto rocked the place. I believe it was his first gig there. People can even argue that that was a "mainstream" track. Oh well, it turned me on to Tiesto and I have seen him several times and he never dissapoints. You can tell the man still enjoys what he does and he is one of the nicest dj's or popstars or whatever you want to call him that you will ever see (not that that affects dj'ing/production, but as much as people complain about Tiesto, noone ever says hes an asshole).

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Originally posted by ncgroov808 Those are good points, but somewhat contadictory. You want to share you music, but you don't want it be mainstream? Where then, do you draw the line? Do you have to give people a pop-quiz on trance before you play music for them? Although I have listened to trance since the early-mid nineties back in the hayday of raves, I myself didn't know much about Tiesto until I first heard his remix of silence when DeKoze playedin on destiny's first boat cruise back in 2000. Since I already liked the original version of that song, it hit home for my friends and me. A few months later, me and the same friends are at the Docks and Tiesto rocked the place. I believe it was his first gig there. People can even argue that that was a "mainstream" track. Oh well, it turned me on to Tiesto and I have seen him several times and he never dissapoints. You can tell the man still enjoys what he does and he is one of the nicest dj's or popstars or whatever you want to call him that you will ever see (not that that affects dj'ing/production, but as much as people complain about Tiesto, noone ever says hes an asshole).

Unfortunately another missed point.

I think what you're interpreting is that I dislike Tiesto. Let me pitch it to you this way: I personally enjoyed the days when Tiesto and Trance in general had it's own underground venue. The days when the names "DJ Tiesto" and "50 Cent" were not on the same Top 40 list.

I want Tiesto to be heard and his presence to be felt of course, but I can't say I don't miss the days when a new hot Tiesto track would hit the net and the vast majority of people had no idea who he was. I'm not sure if i'm being selfish or what have you, but I really really don't relish the idea of Tiesto being known on the same scale as say "Ian Van Dahl" or "Cascada".

There is a reason why some things are underground, and other things are commercial. I PERSONALLY prefer a cult following to a mass following. What I mean by this is that instead of people being led to a sound by the voice of a radio Disc Jockey, The sound itself should lead the people. Why is "50 Cent" a popular HipHop artist?? Because of his immense lyrical skill? I think not...

Tiesto is a master and entrepeneur of the trance genre and his music belongs in the hearts of trancers, not in the ears of people who would lump his music now into the "Dance" category because they really don't know any better. I refuse to believe that at least some part of every tranceaddict doesn't believe in what i'm saying, even if it's only to a slight degree.

Tiesto will be arriving once more at the Docks, and sure enough the 1000s of trance addicts in attendance will be outnumbered by countless people who will attend the show seeking just another a good place to get drunk and pick up women (or men). I liked the clear seperation of crowds, the fact that I could go to a solid trance event knowing that the crowd would be composed PRIMARILY of true fans.

I hope you understand what it is that i'm saying and that no more misinterpretations come along.

I agree with you at almost all your points. The one thing I disagree it's about true fans and general crowd. I would be happy, as you said to come to Trance party where there are only all true fans who understand and apreciate this kind of music. But, what is percentage of true fans at any given Trance event compare to general crowd? My guess, it is much lesser (especially, now days). So, do you think Trance music would be able to develop at such rates that it does now if it only was supported by true fans? I think no. And whether we like it or not DJ's need financial support in order to be able to produce new tracks and explore new horizons of Trance music. And these general crowd mostly provides this support. I don't personally mind DJ Tiesto being with the same chart with "50 Cent" or whatever, or playing his sets @ Disney's resort , or having his own concerts as long as it does not affect the music he produces. So far, I haven't seen major drawbacks at DJ Tiesto's music; mostly, what I see is progress (this is just probably me). In addition, I think that, at that moment, DJ Tiesto's music positions itself in much higher level than music of any other DJ. Of course, it can be changed at any time (look what happened with Paul Oakenfold) but I hope it won't, and DJ Tiesto will "drive people crazy" many more times with his amazing tracks whether at clubs or in resorts, or whatever.

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Originally posted by Vigilant3 Tiesto will be arriving once more at the Docks, and sure enough the 1000s of trance addicts in attendance will be outnumbered by countless people who will attend the show seeking just another a good place to get drunk and pick up women (or men). I liked the clear seperation of crowds, the fact that I could go to a solid trance event knowing that the crowd would be composed PRIMARILY of true fans.

this was happening in Cream @ Nation in Liverpool

People who wernt really into the music wer flocking in for the sake of been in cream, with no idea about whos on the line up, so over about a years worh of Cream Events the place started to fill with the wrong crowd, and eventualy someone was stabbed and the place closed early

BUT

i went a few weeks ago and it was totaly differant, the problem seems to be solved, anyway... im going off topic

This is actually turning into a decent discussion w/out a whole lot of arguing

I know what you mean about the types of people showing up to see Tiesto. I saw him play in NYC a few years ago when In My Memory came out. NYC radio was playing a couple tracks from that album and the crowd there was horrible. It was full of assholes and guidos.

I live in the SouthEast USA where edm is not very popular, especially trance. When Tiesto played here back in December for the first time, the crowd was awesome, maybe 800 real edm fans, although most were probably not Tiesto or even trance fans. That was sweet. It felt like a very old rave actually.

So should you be grateful to live in a city where they at least play Tiesto on the radio? That's each persons opinion. I know if they played Tiesto on the radio here, there'd be 100's of rednecks at his gigs when he played and that would def. not be cool. So they can keep him off the radio here, thats all good with me. But you should def. be glad to be in a city that has a very strong edm and trance scene.

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Originally posted by Vigilant3 When I throw on a Tiesto track I can feel the skill involved in producing the quality of trance that he does and I don't "HATE" anyone in the world that has the courage to attempt to produce trance.

Totally ageree.

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Originally posted by Vigilant3 Therefore seeing 1,000 people attend a Tiesto event who don't even really know who he is and will never dig up any of his classic tracks and mixes, makes me sick. Compare it to spending years of your life studying a topic and then having some Shmuck come out of the woodwork one day, read one article on the topic, and now claim to be an expert in the field just like you.

I think that's a ridiculous statement. How are you ever going to get people into trance if they have to know who a DJ is and listen to a load of Magik CDs before they're 'allowed' to appreciate trance.
It's like someone telling you that you had to listen to all the old stuff that was there before you got onto the scene in whatever way you did. For the people who 'make you sick', they're probably regarding 'Just Be' as new and will look at it as a classic in a few years time.

I don't think it's a logical argument, especially to draw a parallel with academic research.

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Originally posted by Vigilant3 Personally, I enjoy listening to obscure trance tracks and sharing knowledge on them because I know the people i'm listening to the music with have an idea of what Trance is and desire it so much that they dig deeper than "Traffic".

Pomposity in it's most raw form. Obscurity doesn't make it better. Again, it's the very ancient chestnut of 'listen to what you like'. Sharing knowledge? D'you mean on a technical level? Just because someone is listening to an obscure track, doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

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Originally posted by Vigilant3 Live sets aside, I think a man or woman who can appreciate some good Ozgur Can, WhiteRoom, or GrayArea, has a higher spot in my book than an individual who loops Tiesto's "Just Be" and Ferry's "Rock Your Body Rock" perpetually on a mix disc in their Civic.

But not everyone can appreciate the likes of Ozgur Can and Whiteroom etc. I don't particularly and I don't think it's a good way to judge someone's taste, if judging taste is a valid thing itself.

I just played Tiesto in Concert DVD again (Oct '04) and it's amazing everytime I watch it. The man can make a performance so much more than the music, which is a good thing in my book.

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Social outcasts are often of the opinion that they must have a drink before being able to loosen up with their inhibitions, thus being able to have a good time. There's a word that sums up this sort of behaviour, and that word is 'reject.'

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ I think that's a ridiculous statement. How are you ever going to get people into trance if they have to know who a DJ is and listen to a load of Magik CDs before they're 'allowed' to appreciate trance. It's like someone telling you that you had to listen to all the old stuff that was there before you got onto the scene in whatever way you did. For the people who 'make you sick', they're probably regarding 'Just Be' as new and will look at it as a classic in a few years time. I don't think it's a logical argument, especially to draw a parallel with academic research. Pomposity in it's most raw form. Obscurity doesn't make it better. Again, it's the very ancient chestnut of 'listen to what you like'. Sharing knowledge? D'you mean on a technical level? Just because someone is listening to an obscure track, doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. But not everyone can appreciate the likes of Ozgur Can and Whiteroom etc. I don't particularly and I don't think it's a good way to judge someone's taste, if judging taste is a valid thing itself.

Once AGAIN M.I.S.I.N.T.E.R.P.R.E.T.A.T.I.O.N.!

Alright where to begin Mr. Ocean... 1stly, did I not mention several times that I do not dislike Tiesto's music? No. Therefore you can talk about his DVD disc all you like it doesn't have basis here.

2ndly, What are you talking about bringing in parallels to "academic" research? I think you're just making an effort to show YOUR, "pomposity" was it?, and instead of commenting on an opinion you've gone off reading it the way you wanted to and coming up with garbage as a rebuttal.

3rdly, Ozgur Can, Whiteroom, Etc, were Examples. Hence the "etc." Futhermore, I never used those to judge taste in fact MUSIC itself isn't even a question in anything i've said so far! :S The topic here is the deliverance of such music into the mainstream. When I say that I personally enjoy sharing ideas with Trancers that look deeper into the musical scene and dig out new artists and styles, That's ALL that I meant. Did I say that if you listen to Tiesto you have bad taste? Honestly I have no idea how you could infer any of what you said from what "I" was saying. Ridiculous...

Lastly, OBVIOUSLY people need to be exposed to the music before it can be widespread and appreciated. Was that some half-ass attempt at sarcasm or did you really think you were making a point? The point "I" was driving at, was that the people showing up at many shows were there because "Tiesto" is now becoming a household name. People see a flyer w/ "Tiesto" on it and think "Hey, that guy's on the radio, probably lots of bitches to pick up at the party. I'll tell Doyle." NOT "Hey I like that Guy... That music he plays is really good... I'll go check it out and download some more tracks of his tonight, he's becoming a new favorite of mine."

Can you understand any of what i'm saying?! I feel like i'm talking to a wall when people refute what i'm trying to say with their own drummed up ideas of what it is I said. It's like Religion. Everyone loves it because it's so ambigious you can interpret it any way you want to. Well this isn't the Bible. Read. Every. Line.

I believe it was ngroov808 that mentioned this was turning into a decent discussion and I hate to break it with this rivalry but honestly don't post a comment if you're going to insult and oppose with no basis or foundation.

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Originally posted by Rob H this was happening in Cream @ Nation in Liverpool People who wernt really into the music wer flocking in for the sake of been in cream, with no idea about whos on the line up, so over about a years worh of Cream Events the place started to fill with the wrong crowd, and eventualy someone was stabbed and the place closed early BUT i went a few weeks ago and it was totaly differant, the problem seems to be solved, anyway... im going off topic

That's actually pretty on topic i'd say. That's a good point and didn't realize that. A good example of what can happen when things become to commercialized. I used to rave when I was younger in Vancouver and the scene had turned into more of an Asian gang After-Hours party than anything. Big turn off.

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Originally posted by Guerrilla I agree with you at almost all your points. The one thing I disagree it's about true fans and general crowd. I would be happy, as you said to come to Trance party where there are only all true fans who understand and apreciate this kind of music. But, what is percentage of true fans at any given Trance event compare to general crowd? My guess, it is much lesser (especially, now days). So, do you think Trance music would be able to develop at such rates that it does now if it only was supported by true fans? I think no. And whether we like it or not DJ's need financial support in order to be able to produce new tracks and explore new horizons of Trance music. And these general crowd mostly provides this support. I don't personally mind DJ Tiesto being with the same chart with "50 Cent" or whatever, or playing his sets @ Disney's resort , or having his own concerts as long as it does not affect the music he produces. So far, I haven't seen major drawbacks at DJ Tiesto's music; mostly, what I see is progress (this is just probably me). In addition, I think that, at that moment, DJ Tiesto's music positions itself in much higher level than music of any other DJ. Of course, it can be changed at any time (look what happened with Paul Oakenfold) but I hope it won't, and DJ Tiesto will "drive people crazy" many more times with his amazing tracks whether at clubs or in resorts, or whatever.

I definitely see light in what you're saying. I just hope that Tiesto doesn't fold his hand and drum out any less of quality in his music for the future for the sake of some extra coin and publicity. I can't say I don't mind him being a Top 40 name, because I clearly do, But I can live with it as long as his tracks are still solid and the Urban Trains keep pulling out of the station so to speak.

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Originally posted by ncgroov808 This is actually turning into a decent discussion w/out a whole lot of arguing I know what you mean about the types of people showing up to see Tiesto. I saw him play in NYC a few years ago when In My Memory came out. NYC radio was playing a couple tracks from that album and the crowd there was horrible. It was full of assholes and guidos. I live in the SouthEast USA where edm is not very popular, especially trance. When Tiesto played here back in December for the first time, the crowd was awesome, maybe 800 real edm fans, although most were probably not Tiesto or even trance fans. That was sweet. It felt like a very old rave actually. So should you be grateful to live in a city where they at least play Tiesto on the radio? That's each persons opinion. I know if they played Tiesto on the radio here, there'd be 100's of rednecks at his gigs when he played and that would def. not be cool. So they can keep him off the radio here, thats all good with me. But you should def. be glad to be in a city that has a very strong edm and trance scene.

I personally thought it would be even more widespread in the US. It's a surprise to learn that! Well, I would say that the grass is greener on the other side. I guess that when you don't have Tiesto on the radio you, you almost crave it, but when you have it every 20 minutes and the Radio DJs are playing "Lethal Industry" in 2005 and everyone is amazed at the track... it kind of makes you roll your eyes. It's nice 2 see that you understand what I mean about the turnouts, I think you put it best so far. Your 100 rednecks, well basically here that translates into 50 Black HipHoppers who have no idea why they're there, and another 500 Italian guys hoping to hear some "Ace of Base" 2005 ReWork come on the speakers.

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Originally posted by Vigilant3 I believe it was ngroov808 that mentioned this was turning into a decent discussion and I hate to break it with this rivalry but honestly don't post a comment if you're going to insult and oppose with no basis or foundation.

I thought my comment was constructive. You're phrasing seems provocative to me and if anything, turning it into some issue of rivalry!

Once AGAIN M.I.S.I.N.T.E.R.P.R.E.T.A.T.I.O.N.!

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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Social outcasts are often of the opinion that they must have a drink before being able to loosen up with their inhibitions, thus being able to have a good time. There's a word that sums up this sort of behaviour, and that word is 'reject.'